Updates requested: Eckenrode, Moran, DeVries, Meagher, Whitman, Liddy, et al.

[George Pazin]

I was a little disappointed last week when the site was criticised as being a bunch of Doak followers (to paraphrase more politely).

I think the 2nd biggest reason Tom D gets so much praise and respect on this site (the first of course being his golf courses) is that he is willing to share his thoughts and experiences with us.

To that end, I am requesting from the others - and there are many more that I'm sure I've left out - updates. What are you working on, when can we hope to play it, etc. If you feel uncomfortable shilling for yourself, send me an IM or email me tshirts@nauticom.net and I will gladly share with everyone your successes. I can even make up fake names so that it is not quite so apparent that I'm the one doing the shilling!

[Matt_Ward]

George:

There are plenty of really talented folks out there in the field. Unfortunately, many of them (the ones I have spoken to when in the field) will lurk but not post. That is their prerogative.

Let me mention the outstanding job done by Ron Ferris with his new design The GC at Red Rock in Rapid City, SD. This layout, IMHO, is beyond the likes of The Links of ND at Red Mike Resort and Hawktree -- all of which are located in the Dakotas. In fact, I believe Red Rock is the best public course you can play in the Northern Plains and will challenge such places like Wild Horse for being the best in the immediate region.

Kelly Blake Moran just had a stunning success with The Club at Morgan Hill -- located just across the Delaware off I-78 in Pennsy. Solid effort for a course located on really hilly terrain. I played the course a short time ago and I personally believe it goes one clear step beyond what Kelly has previously done with such courses as Hawk Pointe and Laurel Links.

Mike DeVries will open his new effort in Marquette, MI called Greywalls. I have seen pictures of a few holes and it really does "look" like another success.

I'm sure there are others coming down the line ...

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I'll try to post some images from Greywalls in a bit

[Tom_Doak]

Tommy:  I'll be pissed off at you if you came to Michigan and didn't stop in to say hi.  [Unless, of course, we were all working elsewhere.]

[Tommy_Naccarato]

I hadn't got there yet. Mike game me a bunch of pics one night a while back and I have been lagging in posting them here.

Somebody quick threaten to fire me for lack of production!

[ian]

Carrick Design Inc.

under construction currently:

-18 hole Resort course for DeVere in Loch Lomond Scotland called The Carrick on Loch lomond. The course is right beside Loch Lomond. Half done.

-18 hole Resort Course in Deer Lake Newfoundland, called Humber Valley. Course has Lake an riverside holes and 200 feet of elevation change. 90% complete

-18 hole private course, in Gravenhurst called Muskoka Bay Club. The entire course has exposed Granite Outcrops, some the length of the entire hole. Just beginning.

-18 hole public course just outside Owen Sound, called Cobble Beach Golf Course. 4 Holes right on Lake Huron, with every hole looking out at the lake. Few holes done.

That's our little unknown comapny, if we count?

[Tom_Doak]

Ian,

You guys have a lot of courses underway.  Is Canada not experiencing the slowdown in construction which we have in the States?

[Jonathan Davison]

Ian
What is the site at Loch Lomond like?
And what type of course can we expect?
Have you visited the Nicklaus site at Loch Lomond we had the pleasure of walking the site last year, will be interesting if it ever gets planning permission.

[George Pazin]

Your firm certainly counts, Ian. I wanted to use people's names to catch their attention, and I was planning on using yours, but I was a little concerned I might offend your boss. Thanks for the update - it's an impressive list.

Keep 'em coming, everyone else!

[Jeff_Mingay]

Tom,

I think Canada is experiencing the slowdown, it's just that Carrick, McBroom, and Cooke are doing ALL of the few projects underway currently! Or so it seems.

As for Whitman...

Practice course at Blackhawk GC in Edmonton was just seeded a few weeks ago. It's a sporty three hole loop down by the N. Saskatchewan River.

The most exciting new project on the "drawing board" is Sagebrush - a private club concept being developed by PGA Tour player, Richard Zokol, near Kamloops, British Columbia. Not sure when it might start though.  

Otherwise, things are pretty slow unfortunately.

[John Foley]

What about Gil Hanse? Where is his next/current job.

BTW - Where has mr. Eckenrode been? He was her often awhile ago, but haven't heard from him in a long, long time.

[Scott_Burroughs]

What about Gil Hanse? Where is his next/current job.

Gil is finishing up Boston Golf Club (I did a thread on renderings of 4 holes from the club last week), due to open next spring, and currently working on "The Valentine Project", tentatively called The Prairie Club, of which a thread was started on within the last couple of days.  It is to eventually be a 36 hole project located in north central Nebraska (near Valentine) on sandy hills overlooking a canyon.  The first 18 is in the works and will be private.  The 2nd 18 might be open to the public.  I think the first course is due to open in 2006.

Geoff Shackelford is assisting on The Prairie Club's design.

[ian]

Tom,

"Is Canada not experiencing the slowdown in construction which we have in the States?

Canada is quickly slowing down, particularly in Ontario (where its overbuilt). Both Ontario projects are related to a housing project near by (fortunately not surrounding). The other two projects are resorts, none are stand alone golf.

Johnny,

What is the site at loch lomond like?

It is a much hillier site with much better soils, ie. sand and gravel as opposed to peat

And what type of course can we expect?

This is Doug's project, I just expand ladies tees. I guess Gleneagles would be close to the look of the architecture. The course will have all revetted bunkers, lots of closely mowed surrounds, bunkers in fairways, run-up approaches, and the sort; but it also has water in play on a few holes which would be more modern looking.

Have you visited the nicklaus site at loch lomond we had the pleasure of walking the site last year, will be interesting if it ever gets planning permission.

Don't know if he has, but likely.

[paul cowley]

    love golf design :

  -sanctuary cove , brunswick ga.[with fred couples ]
   40% complete ...semi-private.
  -river pines ,verdi nev...growing in ,to open this fall...public
  -hawks haven ,ft meyers fla...dec. construction start ...
    semi-private.
  -hampton island , riceboro ga.....jan. construction start...
   private.

  -we are in the construction drawing phase with two others that
   should start in mid 2005 .


   

 

[ed_getka]

Neal Meagher is working on a project over in Asia, that I presume he will fill us in on when he gets the green light. Neal is pretty excited about the site, so I look forward to hearing about it.
  Mike DeVries is cranking out a course on the edge of Grand Rapids called the Mines that I am going out to see in a few weeks, hopefully I can figure out how to post some pix. Joe Hancock has been working with Mike on this project and learning a lot and having fun playing in the dirt. I need to talk to Joe about putting up a daily journal type blurb of his day to day experiences in the field. Talking to him about this project has been really interesting and I'm sure others on this site would find it informative.
   I'm not sure what Todd is up to architecture-wise, but he has been busy on the family front, getting married and having a baby in the last couple of years. Where are you Todd?

[moth]

I don't suppose we (Nelson & Haworth) count, but here's a partial list on what we are working on at the moment (not including whatever Robin Nelson is working on) It won't look like any of the other lists on here, that's for sure:

1. A new 18 hole project in Lahore, Pakistan (first modern non-British Army course in that Country). Great place if you are a meat eater!
2. Remodeling Sabah Golf and Country Club in Borneo (in a "Seth Raynor" style inspired by this site-Original design by Robert Muir Graves)
3. Finishing up Shanghai Sheshan Golf Club in Shanghai, China - open next month.
4. A bunch of other work in China, with projects ongoing in various stages in Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen and Hainan Island.
5. A new 18 hole project in HK due to start construction next year.
6.Just finished St Raphael GC in Quebec, Canada.

Brett

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Moth,
If you guys don't count, I quit!

[Peter Pratt]

Ed, where is the Devries course in Grand Rapids? Will it be public or private?

Thanks,

Peter

[George Pazin]

EVERYBODY COUNTS.

I tried to list more names on the thread title, but apparently there is a limit to how many letters a title will accept. Additionally, as I said to Ian, I tried to use people's names to catch everyone's attention. I'm not entirely sure of everyone's firm names, so I couldn't necessarily include those. Also, I did not want to offend anyone's bosses who might lurk, so I didn't include people like Jim Lipe, Paul Cowley, etc. - I specifically chose people I thought were the owners of their respective firms. And I left out Tom D, Jeff Brauer, Gil, C&C, etc., because they do get discussed on here, and I didn't want to further the notion that they are all we care about.

Several people have emailed me with updates. Thank you very much for those. I will not share anything private unless you specifically say it is okay to share with everyone.

Keep 'em coming, everyone!

[ed_getka]

Peter,
   It is within a mile and a half of downtown. It is an old quarry area. It must be off the beaten path, because Joe Hancock lives there and owns a course there and he didn't know this place existed. Shoot Joe an IM if you are in the area and I'm sure he would be happy to show you around.

Brett,
  Thanks for the info. What are some of the details of the projects, such as quality of land, style of holes, bunkers, greens, etc...

[moth]

Hi Ed,

Sabah Golf is on a very hilly & treed site in Malaysia-no houses. Incidentilly the place where Vijay did all his "years in the jungle" and the local members don't exactly like that characterisation! There is a few interesting stories about Vijay to come out of that place.

All the other sites seem to be without fail, dead flat sites with very poor soil. Not a linksland site among them -funny enough. Almost all are housing developments as well.

The exception is the HK project which is on a very hilly site which will involve some dynamite to do much of the earthworks. Interesting that the site was a bombing range used by the Brits for some 40 years - now its going to be a golf course environmentalists are discovering it is a fragile ecosystem. Must have been the 40 years of aerial bombardment that softened it up!

[RJ_Daley]

Interesting that the site was a bombing range used by the Brits for some 40 years - now its going to be a golf course environmentalists are discovering it is a fragile ecosystem. Must have been the 40 years of aerial bombardment that softened it up!

Mothman, that's a funny observation.  You certainly seem to have the most exotic beat in GCA.

About that Pakistan course... what do you mean about the meat eater comment?  I thought the diet was mostly non meat over there.  

Can a Seth Raynor course with all the slopes on greens and earthworks found in a redans or double plateau and such hold up to all the rain?  Or, do you have to assume from the begining that you must concede soft conditions to the local environment and design accordingly?  Maybe the flatish style sand bunkers next to turf mounded and sloped faces is a good thing there and actually deals with rain wash-down better?

[ed_getka]

Brett,
  With the flat sites, do you move a dirt to get some interesting contouring and then build holes? Or does your firm have a generalized approach to dealing with uninteresting sites? How much client input are you getting on these projects? Thanks for the responses.

[Todd_Eckenrode]

I appreciate the inquiry.  I've been pretty busy, really, but mostly in design.  Most of my work is in California right now, and the process of going from first site visit to opening day can be lengthy and painful here!  Have a few projects I'm pretty excited about, though, namely one in NorCal on big rolling hills and Ca. oaks, and two in SoCal.   One is on a great site of dry creeks with 40' bluffs..the golf playing down low, up high, and across the bluffs with nice variety.  A new one has the potential to be world-class, I feel, but unfortunately I can't talk about it at this point! Will keep you posted, and hope it's not too far down the road.

[ed_getka]

Todd,
  Where is the NorCal site? I would love to come out when you are up to see what you are working with there. I'm glad to hear you have some promising projects in the works that you are excited about.