[T_MacWood]

What is known about Abercromby?

From every thing I've read, he had a very good reputation, especially among his peers. But for whatever reason his name isn't mentioned often today. I know he wasn't as active as some of his contemporaries, and one or two of his best work was lost (The Addington-New) and he never came to the States (that I know of), but some of his work is still admired: The Addington, Worplesdon and Coombe Hill.

What are some of his more interesting courses, perhaps lesser known? Are there any distinctive qualites found with an Abercromby design?

[Mark_Rowlinson]

He is said never to have measured anything, doing it all by eye.  That entailed going up in a balloon to view the site at Coombe Hill in order to find a routing through the trees.  There's a funny little course on the edge of Dartmoor until recently called Manor House Hotel (known as Moretonhampstead).  It was recently bought by Peter de Savary and has been renamed Bovey Castle.  Some alterations have been made (by whom I know not) especially to the 1st hole which was distinctly eccentric!  The majority of the outward 9 make enjoyable strategic use of a little stream.  I hope that in the rebuild and upgrading they don't take away the innocent charm and fun of what was essentially a holiday course.

He lived at The Addington in later life and tinkered with the course which is perhaps why it is his best known.  Unfortunately the second course there was lost.  Of the courses of his that I know I should say the Addington has the most individuality and has been well written up by others on this site.  Coombe Hill is a more straighforward course - a strong one with some good short holes and some very strong par 4s (at least to a man of my feeble hitting).  Bobby Jones described the 14th as one of the finest holes of its length he had played (341 yards, par 4).  Worplesdon was the earliest and has some fine bunkering, good use of the slopes on site and a very good long par-4 finisher.  It ought to be on everyone's agenda when visiting Woking (West Hill, too, but that's not by Aber).  

[TEPaul]

A few small bits of information on Abercromby contained in Cornish & Whitten seem pretty enticing, mentioning that "Aber" was considered by some contemporary critics to have created the most natural hazards of his day and to have been perhaps the finest British designer of the era before WW1. It also mentions he was a "free hand" designer, not drawing, just measuring and creating on the land. Other than attribution for an early course in France it seems he worked in the "Heathlands" his entire career. Got his start when his employer (he was a secretary to a financier) was impressed with Sunningdale, Walton Heath and Woking and asked him to provide a golf course. Abercromby initially consulted with Willie Park Jr, and later joined the firm of Fowler, Abercromby, Simpson (Tom) and Croome.

It seems to me that the early "heathland" architecture was and is probably the most significant and of the highest quality of any of the early golf architecture once golf initially moved out of the linksland into England. Of particular significance (to me anyway) is it seems the whole genre of early "heathland" architecture had far more of a natural flair and aesthetic than any man-made architecture that came before it and more than a good deal of the architecture that came well after it.

[James Edwards]

Did he design Knole Park GC, Sevenoaks England?  

[Marc Haring]

I played Worplesdon a couple of months ago and took a few pictures. It is a delightful course but perhaps has lost much of the original strategy with modern equipment and the seemingly inevitable choking by tree (unfortunately they appear to be planting additional ones). It has become a case of trying to keep it on the fairways as opposed to what side should one favour. The 6th for example is a longish par 4 with a green that slopes severely from front to back and would presumably have been built so as to encourage a delicate running third shot whereas now it is a blind second with a mid to long iron. However the bunkering is very much intact as confirmed by early photo’s in the clubhouse. The par threes are quite special with some offset greens and aggressive slopes. I assume the short 10th is one of the very first in the UK to be played entirely over water.

Here’s a picture of the short 4th which goes back to the delightful arts and crafts style clubhouse.



And here’s one of the short 13th featuring that superb bunkering. I wonder how much Colt got involved with that particular aspect of the course?

[T_MacWood]

JF Abercromby

Talk about a who's who: Abercromby collaborated with Park-Jr. at Worplesdon and Coombe Hill, with Colt at The Addington-Old and was partners with Fowler and Simpson--an architectural home run. He also worked with Croome at The Addington-New.

I get the impression his work on the Continent is not well documented.

James
Abercromby did design Knole Park.

[TEPaul]

Hmmmm! That short 13th looks a little bit more than a lot like Abercromby was collaborating or consulting with Macdonald or Macdonald was collaborating or consulting with Abercromby. If that doesn't look like a Macd/Raynor "short" I don't know what does! Macdonald must have stopped by Worplesdon on his sketch tour. Maybe Emmet did too!

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Yes, Knole Park was Aber.  The only course listed by Cornish and W about which there is some doubt is West Kent.  The club told me it was someone called R.L. Croft.  Cowdray Park suggested they were a Simpson course, rather than Aber.

If you join Multimap (free) and dial in the postcodes there are aerial photos of all these courses:

http://www.multimap.com/map/my.cgi?page=myadmin&page=login&myclient=publicmy

The Addington: CR0 5AB
Coombe Hill: KT2 7DF
Cowdray Park: GU29 0BB
Knole Park: TN15 0HJ
Manor House: TQ13 8RE
West Kent: BR6 7LD
Worplesdon: GU22 0RA

(Those are all number zero not letter O)

[Mark_Rowlinson]

Web sites for four of the clubs mentioned.  Bovey Castle is what was Manor House.


http://www.coombehillgolfclub.com/
http://www.boveycastle.com/pages/golf.html
http://www.knoleparkgolfclub.co.uk/
http://www.wkgc.co.uk/

[Paul_Turner]

Knole Park has one or two epic holes:  as shown in old pics.

Mark

I really hope they haven't screwed up the 1st at Manor House.  That was a celebrated hole.  Darwin loved it!

Mark

Nice to see pics of Worplesdon.  I haven't been there yet.

Cowdray Park might be a sleeper.

[Paul_Turner]

I'm certain that the original West Kent course is a NLE (it was at a place beginning with a "B"- I can't quite recall).  

The current West Kent course at Downe is a Colt course.  Darwin lived closeby, he wrote a club handbook (I have a copty of it) and used to play there.  The scenery is the epitome of southern English:  chalk downs, pretty villages, winding lanes, spitfires...

It's a beautiful course, with some good holes.  But the nature of the terrain, a shallow valley, means that the holes tend to be repetitive.   There are some daft new tree plantings and the bunkers are in desperate need of  reshaping too.

[Paul_Turner]

There's an article in an old 1920s/30s magazine called The Bystander.  In it, Chaz Ambrose sets the task of designing a hole for Aber, Colt, Mack and Fowler.   It would give us an insight into Aber's philosophy...I must find it!

[Marc Haring]

Thought I’d post a couple more pictures of Aber’s Worplesdon.

This is the celebrated opening tee shot. Overlooked by the Pro shop but not the clubhouse thank God. It is really quite inviting and not too long.



The par 5 11th. I think the intention here was to invite a long drive down the right taking on the bunker. If successful the ball would get a kick down the slope and make the green reachable in two. Unfortunately the encroaching trees kind of take that option out nowadays.



Here’s the green complex #11. As you can see, the right hand drive would open up the green nicely. I must admit, I can see elements of Macdonald/Raynor in the relatively sharp edges of the bunkering and mounding.

[T_MacWood]

Addington--I'm not certain if this is the New or the Old, I suspect the New.

[TEPaul]

I'd like to see as many comparative photos between the way some of Abercromby's original holes once were and once looked and the way they look and are now. To me there is a truly marked difference and, I, for one, would like to find out why.

To me the hole, and the bunkering Tom MacWood just posted of that old Addington course smacks of the natural look architecture of even a Cypress Point while the look today of that 11th hole of Worpleson looks like the engineered style of Raynor with uncharacteristic matched Rees Jones capes and bays. In my opinion, the style, look and technique can't get much different. Why is that? It would be both helpful and educational to know, to say the least!

[T_MacWood]

From everything I've read the loss of the New course at Addington was tragic.


Paul
I'd love to see that article in the Bystander. Charles Ambrose has to be one of the little known heros of the Golden Age. Keeping the subject of golf architecture in the forefront of everyone's mind and really stimulating debate and creativity among the top men. I would like to know more about him.

[T_MacWood]

The 13th at Worplesdon circa 1908 -- I reckon Abercromby and Park's work at Worplesdon was looked upon as revolutionary. This green reminds me of the 13th at Harbour Town....with the bunker wrapping around the front.

[Paul_Turner]

Until seeing that last photo.  My instinct would have been to think that the bunkers were originally with the sand splashed up on the faces:  much like the Colt heathland style.

Can't quite place that other old pic on the Addington Old.  It could be the 14th with far fewer trees behind?

That 13th really is a ringer for a Mac/Raynor short hole!

[Lynn_Shackelford]

Paul
Regarding the black and white picture at Addington, isn't the 11th a short par 3 that looks a bit like this?

[Paul_Turner]

One further point.  Obviously the curves on the 13th bunker faces were added at some point.   It looks very similar to some of the work recently done on some bunkers at St George's Hill:





I don't like this trend at SGH.  The bunkers aren't terrible, but it's not true to HSC's natural style.

[Paul_Turner]

Also Marc.  Thanks for the additional pics of Worplesdon.  It looks graceful.

Lynn

I don't quite see the 11th, the green is too big.  I still just about see the 14th, with that bunker on the left having been filled in.  But it's certainly not clear cut and could well be from the New.

[T_MacWood]

Paul
I agree, there is a disturbing simularity between the new St.George's Hill and new Worplesdon bunkers. Have we been exporting restoration specialists to the UK?

[Paul_Turner]

Tom

I don't know if it's coincidence or the work of a consulting architect.   I think some it is justified by "maintenance cost reduction"with those grass faces.  Steel's work at Tandridge is similar but worse.  Moor Park High to be going in the same direction...sod walling the faces and keeping the sand flat.

I don't buy the maintenance cost argument.  The members at these courses aren't hard up, they are some of wealthiest people in the country.  The poor green keepers are probably not getting the budget to maintain the course as the original architects intended.  

The redo of SGH's 8th is the worst job.  All probably for "maintenance reasons".  But the fact is that the original bunkers were perfectly maintained for 80 odd years before the redo.

[TEPaul]

"That 13th really is a ringer for a Mac/Raynor short hole!"

Paul:

No kidding!! That hole in that old photo looks remarkably like a Macdonald/Raynor "short". Matter of fact, it look very similar to the 11th at Fox Chapel with vertical banked bunkering seemingly surrounding it! The interesting thing is that photo of the hole Tom MacWood posted is apparently from 1908 and Macdonald/Raynor hadn't even built their first course, NGLA, in 1908!

Tom MacWood:

Great job in posting those early Abercromby photos of Addington and Worplesdon. If somene told me Rees restored those bunkers with that matched wavy cape-like look I'd have to believe them. They look identical to a bunker a bit short of one of his holes at Nantucket Golf Club! The photo was posted on here in the last two years. The only difference at all is Rees's bunker banks weren't quite as vertical as that one on Worplesdon.

[TEPaul]

Man, some of those early photos of Abercromby really do look like what MacDonald/Raynor later did in bunker style. And I don't know who restored or redid those bunkers in England but I doubt whoever it was got transported in from the States. Hell, if they wanted a Macdonald/Raynor/Abercromby(?) restoration look they should've brought in Brian Silva from Boston---the Raynor bunker restorations he did at Mountain Lake and Fox Chapel look a lot more representative of that early and original look and style than those recent photos from England!  

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