What are your thoughts on Cuscowilla Golf Club?

[Jimmy Muratt]

After reading the course profile and some of the comments that have been made in the past, Cuscowilla looks like an incredible layout with a great variety of design in the holes.  

It looks like it presents a wide variety of required tee shots requiring one to work the ball each way.  It also incorporates my personal favorite, diagonal carries over bunkers, rough or hazards.  

For those that have played it, what are your impressions of the course?  How does it stack up to the other Coore/Crenshaw courses?  

[BCrosby]

A special course. Arguably the second best in Georgia after ANGC.

A great front nine. I have trouble picking out special holes because they are all very good.

The back is almost as good. I have some reservations about no. 14, a par 5 with an awkwardly shaped fairway and an awkward second shot landing area. I might quibble that the tee shot on nos. 4 and 10 (both over water) are somewhat  repetitive, though the second shots and the green complexes are very different.

But remember, I may be biased. I've only played it 15 or so times. Though I've spoken at length with the developer, I did not review the architects' contracts or the various change orders. I did not witness the course being built, who made what design choices, rejected routings, etc. There will be some, therefore, who say I am not entitled to an opinion.

But I do have an opinion and it is that Cuscowilla is a wonderful course. Maybe the best to have been built in this neck of the woods in my lifetime.

Bob      

[corey miller]

Bob-Those criticisms you mention are only to be used to justify bad work on courses you do not enjoy.  According to some I think we need to rate the developers and local environmental lobbyists rather than the course itself.

[Robert Kimball]

Yes, it is in fact a wonderful golfing experience.  I haven't played in over a year, but the memories are still fresh.  

The bunkering is absolutely phenomenal.  Right off the bat, on hole 1, you are required to carry a large cross bunker. The bunkers look like they have been there for years. They have the old-style rugged look of the classic courses.

The oft-discussed 5th hole is a classic.  Unless you can absolutely crush it, don't even try to hit the green from the tee.  It's uphill, you have to contend with the huge bunker on the left half of the fairway, and the green is diabolical.  

The cape-style 10th is truly magnificant, and the 11th is a beautiful par 3 with a false front.  I wish they would take down the pine trees that are at the back of that green.  They block the wind and just seem out of place.

Other than that, you will use every club in the bag, and caddies are offered to enhance the experience.  Definitely do it if you can.  Located off 1-20 about half way to Augusta.  

[Doug Sobieski]

I walked off that golf course shaking my head, wondering why more courses aren't being built like that today since the construction cost was very low. I agree that the diagonal features are fantastic, requiring strategy on so many shots. But to me the most significant features are the green complexes. They are contoured like greens that were built by the greatest architects of 80 years ago!!! I stood on the 15th green thinking that a green like that would fit in on a course like Oakmont or Oakland Hills.

Overall, one of my favorite courses that I've played in the last couple years. Definitely a must see for someone that wants to play a modern classic.

Doug

[John_Conley]

I walked off that golf course shaking my head, wondering why more courses aren't being built like that today since the construction cost was very low.

Sobe:

Despite its greatness, it still struggles financially.  What you want and what others will pay for may be mutually exclusive.

[John_Conley]

I just checked the course writeup.  One of the true shames is that only one of us has taken the time to jot our thoughts under the commentary.

I will make a point to post my evaluative comments more often than I do.  Doing so will add to the site's value as a resource.

[Joel_Stewart]

I played it one time and the only thing I am sure is that you need to play it more than once to understand it.  This may be a good thing.  Probably a better question is "Does Cuscowilla fit your game" because I found it to be very difficult.  

I came away not impressed but have thought about the course many times and basically changed my mind after thinking about it.  They do have a collection of very good holes and like Rob said the bunkering is exceptional.

Its a difficult course to score on and you're probably going to take a big number on at least one hole.  Its deceptivelly hilly and difficult (at least for me) getting the ball close to the hole.

[Robert Kimball]

Take a second to look at these pictures again.  Look at the view from the first tee.  How great is that?  You have to be on your game from the begining!!!  I love that cross bunker style.


http://www.golfclubatlas.com/cuscollia1.html

[Mike_Sweeney]

Despite its greatness, it still struggles financially.  What you want and what others will pay for may be mutually exclusive.

John,

When you say it struggles, is it the housing that stuggles, which therefore does not bring in enough golfers or is it that golfers prefer some of the other local golf courses/communities?

PS. This is one I really want to see.

[Jeff_Lewis (Guest)]

Let's make sure that we recognize that what a course costs or its commercial success has no bearing on its architectural merit.

The golf boom of the last 10 years obviously reached a crescendo along with the financial markets. Like real estate, it is now, on some kind of delayed basis, finding a new level. So, a number of facilities, public and private, are not having the financial success in 2003 that they would have had in 1998. Does that affect the quality of that project?  Just because someobdy will pay several hundred thousand dollars to join a Trump course, does that make it better than Rustic Canyon? Of course not.

[Mike_Sweeney]

Let's make sure that we recognize that what a course costs or its commercial success has no bearing on its architectural merit.

Jeff,

This is true for existing courses. I agree. However my question is posed with the thought of future courses (see my www). While I would be very proud (from what I have seen and heard) to end up with a course similar to Cuscowilla, my Partner, who has the majority of the risk, does not want to lose money for the sake of architectural greatness. Thus, from what I know of that region, which is very little, it sounds from John's post that the "traditional modern" courses of Nicklaus, Rees and others may be doing better.

Again my hope is that they are doing better for non-golf reasons.

Inniscrone )http://www.golfclubatlas.com/inniscrone1.html )went into bankruptcy, and we have a preety good understanding of why. Gil Hanse was definitely not the reason.

[BCrosby]

Folk's needn't worry about Cuscowilla going broke. It has very deep pockets.

Bob

[HR]

I'm not picking on Rob but his quote shows the bias of GCA. I have played Cuscowilla three times and enjoyed it each time. However, the first two holes are rather easy and the bunkering on the first hole shouldn't come into play.

I would put Cuscowilla in my top 10 in Georgia but closer to 10 than 1.

[Derek Duncan]

HR,

You are correct that the bunker on the first hole doesn't have to come into play--there's plenty of room out to the right, but it's a horrible angle into the green from there. Incidentally, I played Cuscowilla with the head pro and he was bunkered there off the tee.

What are some of the GA courses you like better?

Bob Crosby spoke about the awkwardly shaped fairway at the 14th, and in my opinion it is slightly out of character compared to the other drives. However my understanding is that was one of the two most difficult holes to shape and fit into the routing and quite a bit of work had to be done to make that hole playable.

[John_Conley]

Jeff Lewis:

I love Cuscowilla.  Probably as much as anyone.  I'm just pointing out the obvious answer to Doug's question about why more aren't built like it.

You can talk about a course on its design merits all you want, but when the discussion turns to architecture and trends going forward, economics play a huge role.

People on here can bash Fazio all they want.  He may not be furthering the field of architecture.  He may design merely to appeal to the eye.  He gets way more than his share of the big projects.

I'd love to help people understand what they should like about Cusco.  Mystic Dunes is probably our only similar course in Orlando.  A lot of people hate, not just dislike, it.  Who's to say I'm not wrong and they're right?

[BCrosby]

No. 1 is a terrific hole.

Better players take it just to the right of the bunkers on the left side of the fairway. The green opens up from that side. Pull it a hair and you won't find the green from either the bunker or the rough on that side. Even though there is no more than 110 yards or so into the green.

There are acres of unused real estate on the right side of no. 1 fairway. Couldn't be more open. But the approach to the green from there is close to impossible.

If you have ever wondered what "strategic" means, a picture of no. 1 at Cuscowilla would be a pretty good definition.

Bob

[HR]

Derek,

Cuscowilla is a fine course. Others that I rank = to >
include Ocean Forest, PeachTree, Seaside, Settindown, Hawk's Ridge(except for #18), GCOG, Southern Hills, Farm, and of course Augusta. I didn't forget East Lake. It's not one of my favorites.

[Paul Richards]

jimmy:

Cuscowilla is an excellent golf course.  Coore/Crenshaw did a fabulous job on this site.
 

[Mike_Sweeney]

I'd love to help people understand what they should like about Cusco.  Mystic Dunes is probably our only similar course in Orlando.  A lot of people hate, not just dislike, it.  Who's to say I'm not wrong and they're right?

John,

My wife already has plans for next Christmas at Disney. I really want to play Mystic Dunes with you to see what I missed this past trip.

[ward peyronnin]

Hr
Your comment about No 1 indicates your not appreciating the subtelty of this course. It is a great opener giving the casual golfer an easy beginning but the confdant player another option. I think the great bunkering overwhelms some of the strateigic elements of the course but what a graet combination for an inland course. By the way don,t be a lurker post your monicker in earnest.

My son and i played here after the masters and he unequivocally( at age 11) and without my prodding declared that he preferred cuscowilla bunkering to angc during an 18 hole round of which the  last nine were played in the rain. It is a fabulous course but really out of the way.

[Gene Greco]

Jim:

Strategic golf at its very best.

A much better site than one would think while driving to the course. A nice surprise to see the lake and how it is so marvelously used in the design of the golf course.

#5 is my favorite, a very short driveable par four with a cavernous bunker set slightly left of center of the fairway. Go right to the wider side and face a narrowing of the green for your approach along with a steeper Ross type drop off of the right side of the green. Try to drive the green and face peril within the bowels of this bunker. Go left to the much narrower split fairway and youre left with a more receptive pitch. Though still treacherous!

Great course, routing and passes the walk in the park test with flying colors. Always a first choice when I'm in the Augusta area (about an hour) but decided on Kiawah this time since I've never been. But I will be back as often as possible!

[Lou Duran]

Loved Cuscowilla, even a day after a torrential rain which washed some of the bunker faces out and left the course in rather soft conditions.  Excellent mix of par 4s, though somewhat extreme at the long end (#s 9, 18 at 480+).  Very good variety of par 3s, all playing in different directions and varied lengths.  Par 5s are the least interesting.  A course where the the total is greater than the sum of the parts.  Very natural to the eye, nice flow.  Good conditioning, but not overboard.

I too found #14 awkward, and probably one of my least favorite holes on the course.  The par 3 #8 is extremely long in soft conditions (230+ yards) and the green is no picnic.

Areas of improvement: (1) I would move the tee back on #9 50+ yards and make it a par 5.  It follows the long #8, and the green complex on the hillside is very challenging.  Even though I understand that Mr. Coore does not like to follow a very difficult hole with an easy one, another par 5, even if reachable in firm conditions, would give the course better balance.  There is some blindness on the second shot that could make this hole extremely interesting if the drive is not struck solidly and placed in the right spot.   (2) There is a natural promontory just back and right of the tee on the par 3 #11 (even though there had been a lot of rain, the lake was down a couple of feet.  This would only add 10 - 15 yards to the back tees, but it would bring the lake more into view and in play.  Also, I would cut down all the vegetation on the bank if it could be done without causing erosion.

In my opinion, a top 50 modern, and well worth the trouble/time to get there.
 

  

  

[Ran Morrissett]

Jimmy sums it up well: great variety.

There is almost 100 yards of difference found within each class of par hole: the 133 yard 11th to the 235 yard 8th, the drivable par fours at 5 and 12 to the 480 yard two shot 9th, the reachable 2nd at 533 yards with its downhill tee ball to the 623 yard 14th which plays uphill for the last several hundred yards.

Throw in some dramatic holes (10, 11) along the lake and some subtle holes (the bunkerless 13th that's a favorite of Coore's) and Cuscowilla possesses an exceptional mix, all of which is maintained by a Green Keeper who understands what the architects were trying to achieve.

Three random comments:

1. I'll go on record as saying the 1st is my favorite opening hole in golf.

2. I like the 14th - yes, it's set over the most rugged piece of the property and the difficulty of the hole reflects as much but plenty of modern architects would have demolished/ruined the landscape in an effort to tone things down - C&C did not.

3. I wish the course didn't end with a conventional tough two shot hole - the course deserves a more unique Home hole.

Match play head for head with Augusta National gets closer with each passing year that ANGC performs major work:

1. Cuscowilla 1 up
2. Cuscowilla 1 up
3. all square
4. Cuscowilla 1 up
5. Cuscowilla 1 up (the new work at ANGC is horrible though the superb green complex remains in tact)
6. Cuscowilla 2 up
7. Cuscowilla 1 up
8. Cuscowilla 1 up (plenty would give it to Cuscowilla)
9. Cuscowilla 2 up
10. Cuscowilla 2 up
11. Cuscowilla 1 up (some might call for a halve)
12. all square
13. Augusta 1 up
14. Augusta 2 up
15. Augusta 2 up
16. Augusta 2 up
17. Augusta 1 up
18. Augusta 1 up

Who knows? At the rate things are going, Cuscowilla may one day become the best course in the Peach state. The only way to screw up Cuscowilla is if the owners let any future housing encroach on the play. Though set back, the structure directly behind the 16th green at Cuscowilla simply doesn't help. A house anywhere along the plain of the 6th hole would not be good.

But as things are today, Cuscowilla deserves its lofty modern ranking in Golf Week.

Cheers,

[Doug Sobieski]

John Conley:

Sorry that I didn't make my initial post more clear. My thoughts about the construction cost had more to do with the fact that so many developers today overspend on things that they don't need. It's totally unrelated to Cuscowilla as a viable development, as you can tell driving through the gates that they probably aren't meeting expectations. Mine was more wishfull thinking that it is still feasible to build a phenomonal golf course within a reasonably modest budget. In the golf business you always run into groups of members that would like to explore building a golf club, and the cost to construct Cuscowilla seems to indicate that it can be done a lot more cheaply than most developers end up spending. I'm only looking at construction cost. Nothing else.

Sobe