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LenBum

Sebonac GC Update
« on: July 31, 2004, 07:47:40 PM »
Standing on the porch of the pro shop at Shinnecock Hills you can clearly see the trees that have been cleared for one of the fairways. Today the tractors were visible and you could see the dust rising over the tree line. I know there was a thread here on Sebonac GC but I couldn't find it. Maybe Tom can fill us in on the progress. And tentative dates as to when grassing might start.

PS:Overheard a NGLA member complaining about the number of helicopter flyovers in recent weeks. I have no idea if it's related to Sebonac. It certainly could be the owner giving friends or prospective members a view of the course.

Islander_2

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2004, 10:57:12 AM »
Clearing is progressing well at Sebonack. Center lines have been cut and over half of the holes have been cleared. It is a pretty big operation up there right now.

rgkeller

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2004, 02:21:40 PM »
So what is the number to join?

A Bear's Club $350,000?

A half million?

More?

pdrake

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2004, 08:46:47 PM »
The Bridge is $500+ so I would presume we are talking north of that (seeing the location is 100 times better than the old race track).  

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2004, 10:48:54 PM »
It's not a big operation yet.  The clearing is slightly past half done; I will be out there in a week to see how it's going.  Jim Urbina tells me they're doing a great job in cleaning up the trees and roots while leaving the little contours of the ground.

We hope to have permits to start shaping some holes before the end of this month.

I haven't heard what it will cost to join.

McCloskey

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2004, 10:55:01 PM »
Tom

Nice to hear the clearing is moving along.
Just curious, will Nicklaus or any of his associates be on site with you next week?

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2004, 08:41:44 AM »
A.  Yes.  I don't think Jack is coming this time, but Jim Lipe and/or Kurt Bowman will be there so we can try to sort out the final placement of holes 6, 7 and 9 with Mr. Pascucci.

Joel_Stewart

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2004, 12:39:39 PM »
We hope to have permits to start shaping some holes before the end of this month.

Tom:

Crazy question but how can you have a permit to take down and clear trees but not have a permit to shape the land?  Is this all part of the red tape?  I must be very naive on the permit process.

rgkeller

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2004, 02:39:08 PM »
The Bridge is $500+ so I would presume we are talking north of that (seeing the location is 100 times better than the old race track).  


Well, the Bridge has only managed to attract about 35 members.

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2004, 02:52:38 PM »
Tom,

Do you and Jack hug or shake hands? ;)

I'm here at Ran's pleasure and have never made a request - until now.  Ran, please declare a moratorium on Sebonac posts.  

Mike
« Last Edit: August 02, 2004, 02:54:42 PM by Mike_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2004, 05:33:51 PM »
Mike Hendren:

Why???????????????

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2004, 06:05:56 PM »
chipoat,

The thinly veiled attacks on Nicklaus are just that - thinly veiled.  Seems like half of the treehouse wants this project to be a huge success while the other half is rooting for a titanic failure.  

Do you like people looking over your shoulder while you work?  The proof will be in the pudding.  

The only upside is that we have apparently identified the piece of dirt that holds the entire world together :)

Besides, I'm just kidding.  

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

JakaB

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2004, 06:14:11 PM »
Chip,

I know Mike would never lie..at least on purpose...so to save him the trouble I will tell you why Sebonac should not be discussed on this site....access, access, access...The lie of the "open mind" must be bought and sold before the rater minions can expand their unlimited national memberships out to the Island....The truth may not play for free...

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +3/-1
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2004, 08:03:23 PM »
I usually don't mind people looking over my shoulder while I work, as long as they don't ask too many questions to allow me to think.  In fact, in Oregon I invited it, and things worked out just fine.

The Sebonack job is different, and I think everyone here understands why.  One of the reasons Pacific Dunes turned out so well was that we never really had an argument about any part of it.  To do that at Sebonack, both Jack's team and mine have to be happy with it, and that will be harder if everyone here is trying to split hairs about who did what.

Pretty much every other golf course in the world has been judged by the finished product.  I hope that you'll give us the same chance.  As for access, I'm glad to provide what I can, but only on the condition that no one asks me who did what.   And that's my last post on the subject until we have finished a golf course.  Promise.

LenBum

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2004, 09:00:42 PM »
I'm sorry my post touched a nerve here at the group. I understand what is at stake. Being out there every day I'll find another source to keep me updated on the progress.
In the end the golf course itself will probably determine the success of the club. I have no idea what Mr. Pascucci's plans or intent is with the club. I'll assume he wants a world class golf course and facility. With the property he has and the design team working on it he's on the right track. The problem might be getting the membership. I can't see many who already belong to Shinnecock or NGLA joining. Of course there will be some. At $350K(thats the number I hear) its less than the Bridge but how many who have that kind of money need another club? Just my opinion.

jeffwarne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2004, 09:26:29 PM »
Actually The Bridge has about double that
60 who paid the full boat,
plus the owner and his partner
as well as his Founder members
Sebonac sure sounds like an exciting project
"Let's slow the damned greens down a bit, not take the character out of them." Tom Doak
"Take their focus off the grass and put it squarely on interesting golf." Don Mahaffey

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #16 on: August 03, 2004, 12:56:50 PM »
This is an important project and all well-thought out posts on the subject should be encouraged, IMO.

The definition of "well-thought out" may be impossible to achieve consensus on, but that's no different than other hot button topics on GCA.

I say be polite in your criticism (and try to be informed) and have at it!

LenBum:

Don't be sorry - it was a good post.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2004, 03:36:02 PM by chipoat »

John_Cullum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2004, 01:39:47 PM »
Is it Sebonac or Sebonack?

I need to know who to make the check out to.
"We finally beat Medicare. "

LenBum

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2004, 07:27:52 AM »
I was standing by the Shinnecock pro shop today helping a few members get ready for their round when a Lexus pulled up. A man gets out and is just looking out toward the first tee. I ask him if I could help him and he says his name is Mark Hissey, Sebonack Golf Club. Seems he read my post about the view from our pro shop of one of their fairways and came to take a look. We chatted for a few minutes and he invited me over to take a look, an invite I will take up after Labor Day. It occurred to me that if that fairway is visible to us then it must be quite a view of Shinnecock from there.
Anyhow he seemed like a great guy and am looking foward to going over there.

PS: His card says Sebonack Golf Club with a K at the end.
Interesting spelling since Sebonac Road and Sebonec Inlet Rd are different.

TEPaul

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2004, 07:57:01 AM »
Every single little detail that happens during construction at Sebonack G.C should be recorded in toto---and preserved for posterity in enormous files entitled "The FACTS of Sebonack G.C". If that doesn't happen the club runs the risk of Pat Mucci getting 98% of the details of what went on over there wrong and it'll create confusion about the club and course for the rest of time.

ChipOat

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2004, 08:00:53 AM »
LenBum:

Is Mark Hissey the new club's GM, project manager, CFO, Director of Golf, etc.???

For the life of me, I cannot get used to the "k" at the end of "Sebonack".  I wish they would change it.

Mike:

I hope it's a huge success as a golf course for a couple of reasons.  If that turns out to be the case, I hope it's also a huge success as a club.

Having seen that Friar's Head absolutely qualifies on the former, I'm cheering them on as to the latter.

LenBum

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2004, 08:58:23 AM »
I believe Mark Hissey is the project manager.................


"For the life of me, I cannot get used to the "k" at the end of "Sebonack".  I wish they would change it."

I can't understand why they would choose that spelling. Maybe they made a mistake.................... :)

A_Clay_Man

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2004, 09:28:03 AM »
If ever there was a project that deserves a documentary, this one does.
So much history, and so much talk. And all they have are a few clearings.

Sounds like epic making stuff.

Islander_2

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #23 on: August 05, 2004, 12:16:56 AM »
Whenever I am able, I will provide you with updates on the project. I've heard some really interesting speculation, a lot of which simply isn't true.

As Tom has indicated, he won't be providing more comments on the building of the course and who did what. Neither will I.

The finished product should hopefully speak for itself. We are sincerely committed to making this a special place. I know that Tom and Jack will make that happen.

I can provide you with one piece of information about the project. I've seen some debate about the Sebonack name, and I can clear that up for you. We have undertaken literally hundreds of hours of research into the history of Sebonac Neck. Some of this was in regard to the Bayberry estate, but mostly it was to research the original look of the whole Shinnecock Hills area from hundreds of years ago. We found that there were very few trees in the area, particularly on Sebonac Neck. We subsequently discovered pictures to prove that as well as an eyewitness account from a wonderful man who caddied at National in the 30's.

When searching through Town Trustee records from the 1600's, we found the original spelling of Sebonack. It is the old English way of spelling it (as in Publick House) and was the original spelling of the word as it had only ever been spoken up until that point but never written. The word means "ground nut place". We had previously found it spelled as "Seponac", "Sebonic", "Saponac", "Sebonac". However, Sebonack was the oldest spelling we found, and it was this logic that we used for deciding on the name.

Even now, the spelling varies. There is Sebonac Road, but also Sebonic Inlet Road.

I hope this helps.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2004, 12:37:08 AM by MHissey »

rgkeller

Re:Sebonac GC Update
« Reply #24 on: August 05, 2004, 08:48:12 AM »
Well, at least we can all be pleased that the new facility was not named "Olde Sebonack."