The Real Bottle Hole-Sunningdale OLD

[NAF]

I snapped this shot last  June when the heather was in bloom.  The genius of CB Mac's bottle hole was to shift the onus of the cross bunkers onto the tee shot whereas the original the bunkers play visual distortion with your second shot and since the hole is I think 420 yards plus you have to watch a thinned mid iron which can find a home here.  The green is also fairly sloped and long is death.  Overall, still a great hole and a classic.  One of my 18 favorite on the heath.

[Brian Phillips]

I think this is the 12th which is one of the holes that Colt redesigned by moving the green back and to the left in it's present position.

Hopefully, Paul Turner will be able to confirm this.

Even Tom Simpson who was a competitor liked this hole and wrote about it in his book.

BP

[TEPaul]

I don't know that hole at all but from the look of the placement of those architecural features, bunkers and others, that's about as good as it gets.

God, I wish more architects would get bunkers and such compeletly inside the fairway lines like that hole!

[Paul Turner]

Brian

Yes I think you're right, Colt did shift the green up onto the knoll.  Park had the green just beyond the bunkers and a bit further right.

I read an interesting article where Max Behr criticises this hole,  I can't remember the details, but it was to do with the bunkers.  There was a riposte from Colt's partner John Morrison.  Maybe I'll dig it up sometime and repost this thread with it included at a later date.

[TEPaul]

Paul:

Again, never having seen the hole I think as a longish par 4 I like the sound of the Park green placement and setup better (with the crossbunkers closer to the green and less bailout space right).

However, if that hole happened to be a midrange (goable) par 5 I'd opt for the setup Colt put on it as preferrable!

Just cannot imagine why Behr would be critcal of that hole. Anything with bunkers inside the fairway lines was his philosophy.

[RT (Guest)]

Paul,

I think the article you refer to was the one in Golf Illustrated (UK) where Behr defines the "line of charm".  TommyN has that one, and if I remember right TEP, Behr had a problem with the fairway bunkers (whic you do not see in NAF's pic) in the left landing area and right landing area.  I can dig it up tonight too if neither Tomsan or you has posted it.

RT

[James Edwards]

Fantastic hole, squeezed in the middle of two classics.  The drivable 11th and the downhill 13th pitch hole.  An awesome experience.

The Sunningdale Foursomes is an international tournament played over the Old and New courses as a matchplay event.  You can have any combination Pro and Amateur, Male and Female etc..

I'm looking for a partner next year in March if anyone has a handicap of 1 or better?

[Robert "Cliff" Stanfield]

The bailout to the right reaaly is not a plus for the player.  When you get to the green and maybe somebody has few pics of the green.  The front right bunker and elephant on the front right make the right hand side approach very difficult to the green.  I have a few pics of this hole at the house but I have no way to post them.  If somebody wants I can email the pics tonight.  I would love to get some pics of the Sunningdale New.

Cliff

[George Bahto]

NAFFER: great job - how about I e mail you a copy of an old photo? Will you post that as well.

When Macedonald listed his Ideal Holes, the first hole he listed was:

"370 yards.  Similar to the bottle hole at Sunnindale, placing deep graduated bunkers in place of ditch and bunker the green properly."