Anybody want to complain about Michelle Wie?

[danielfaleman]

"According to the golfweb.com wire service, Mallon's final round 6-under par 65 was the lowest final round by the winner in the 59-year history of the tournament."

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And why do you think that Mallon was able to shoot such a score, David? The USGA could just have easily picked a course and set it up so that the winner could have had a winning score of +10.


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, David?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

After reading Geoff Shackelford's website, and seeing David Fay exploit this 14 year old further, is it any wonder he is going to completely change the rules of amateur status to accomodate her further?

Simply put, why is she even an amateur anymore?

[Bruceski]

She's not really an amateur. Everytime she has a tournament like this weekend's her stock goes up and she likely gains another future endorsement. She prospectively has about $20 million in the bank already, and the number is growing. It's akin to a company before it goes public.

Perhaps she's the one doing the exploitation? Or...perhaps we should view her like any good product in a free market: everyone benefits.

[TEPaul]

Bruce:

So, does that mean that Bob Jones was never really an amaterur either, seeing as if he wanted to turn pro at any time he could've earned a lot of money simply by doing so?

[Brian Phillips]

Bruce,

If Wie has an accident tomorrow and can never play again, all the promised endorsements will be worth nothing.  You can say the same about a Pro but a Pro will already have earned millions from what she has managed to produce up to now...

As it is now she has zip..just possibilities and maybes..

Brian

[John_Cullum]

Bruce:

So, does that mean that Bob Jones was never really an amaterur either, seeing as if he wanted to turn pro at any time he could've earned a lot of money simply by doing so?

In my mind, Bob Jones ceased to be an amateur when he took 250K to shoot the videos.

[George Pazin]

I don't think anyone doubted that MW has the talent/ability/game to be there.

A lot of us simply feel that you don't change the rules for one competitor, regardless of his or her ability. She should have earned it the same way everyone else did.

Her performance after doesn't change that at all, in my book. I thought she was tremendous before, I think she's tremendous now, and I think she will be tremendous-er in the future. That doesn't change the fact that the exemption was likely given for monetary reasons, which is wrong, IMO.

[ed_getka]

I still think she should have qualified, but she will probably never have to worry about it again. I personally don't think she is going to be as great as most people think. I think she is going to waste too much of her mental reserves too young and burn out before she matures physically. Very few athletes have the mental ability to play at the highest levels for a long time, particularly in individual sports. Hopefully I'm wrong, but Michelle needs to spend more time being a kid, before she ends up being another Capriati (tennis), or that world-beater Ty Tryon .

[Dan_Callahan]

I have no idea how much success Wie will have in future years, but having followed her for a few holes at the Orchards, I can say that she has one of the most fluid, effortless swings I have ever seen. Watching the way she carries herself on the course, it is soooo easy to forget that she is only 14 years old. While her peers are hanging posters of Brittany Spears and Justin Timberlake on the wall, she is making a run at a U.S. Open title against the best women golfers in the world.

Reality set in when, after her round on Sunday and a top 20 finish, she was asked about her plans to turn pro. "Well . . . ," she said, "I still have three years of high school left, and I would really like to go to college . . . ." Whatever mistakes she makes over the next few years—the dumb things she might say, the momentary lack of etiquette—we shouldn't forget that she is barely a teenager and is handling the overwhelming attention and scrutiny with incredible grace.

It's not Wie's fault that the USGA decided to give her an exemption. And maybe she's crazy to think she can win the men's publinks championship to get to Augusta. And maybe she won''t even win a single event on the LPGA Tour. For the time being, she has presented herself with the kind of class and distinction that would make any parent proud.

[Bruceski]

Of course, she's technically an amateur. But a phenomenon like her has rarely been seen in a person so young. I'm speaking to her potential to earn millions of dollars simply by saying "I'm a pro" tomorrow.

Yes, this phenomenon is well-documented in the high school basketball world (as the best example), where 17 year olds such as Kevin Garnett and Kobe Bryant jumped to the pros and became instant millionaires. But this has never been seen in women's golf. So, in essence, for the sport we are discussing the phenomenon is unprecedented. Not even Tiger Woods, having entered a smattering of pro events at age 15, was being as successful in the pro ranks at age 14 (though had he seriously tried he might have succeeded at that age).

The most valid point is that given her youth she may not live up to expectations. But the Ty Tryon analogy is not quite on target: he failed after jumping to frequent events on the pro tour. In fact, the pro tour revealed him as an overhyped, below average, not-ready-for-primetime failure. By contrast, Wie has played in 10 pro events this year, and made the cut in all but one. In my book, she's a pretty sure bet to surpass the success of the hyped wannabe's like Tryon, and she's truly worth more than $20 million RIGHT NOW. From this perspective, barring her having a piano fall on her, she's a pro with money in the bank. Hell, I'd loan her $50,000 as an investment if guaranteed a small percentage (say, 0.5-1%) of her future earnings (including endorsements). Most on this board would, too.

[TEPaul]

"In my mind, Bob Jones ceased to be an amateur when he took 250K to shoot the videos."

John Cullum:

Your mind is not the only one who felt that "act" caused Jones to cease to be an amateur. Didn't you know that the USGA amateur status committee told Jones that act had caused him to breach and lose his amateur status and that's the very reason Jones quit competitive golf?  
 
 

[JohnV]

A lot of us simply feel that you don't change the rules for one competitor, regardless of his or her ability.

They didn't change the rules.

Look at the entry form for the US Women's Open (or any other one for that matter).

Under Exemptions you will find:

S-12 - Special exemptions selected by the USGA.

It's there party and they can invite who they want.  They gave Aaron Baddley a special exemption in 2000 to the US Open after he won the Australian Open as an amateur.  The gave Julie Inkster a special exemption the year after she turned pro (after winning 3 US Women's Amateurs).  They also gave Vicky Goetze one just after she turned pro.  It isn't the first and it probably won't be the last time they invite a young player like Wie.

For those who said she shoudl go through qualifying for the experience of it, she did that last year so it isn't like she never has.

Brother Bill, there was also the issue of the Curtis Cup being two weeks before which put all the women who played in it in a bit of a bind as to which qualifiers they could play in, along with her defending at the WAPL.

[George Pazin]

That's certainly a valid distinction, but I do think it is changing the spirit of the rules, if not the actual rules.

I also disagreed with inviting Baddeley, though it makes more sense to me, in that he had to travel to the other side of the world to attempt to qualify.

Inkster's and Goetze's probably do set a more similar precedent, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I think the proper way to handle it, if you will, would be to change the qualifying criteria for the future.

I look forward to seeing MW in many more events in the future. I kind of get the feeling that even she doesn't really appreciate how special she can be, and that when she realizes it, she will dominate like Tiger did in 2000.

I also hope she pursues competing in more men's events, though I'd rather she did it through conventional qualifying than special exemptions.

[TEPaul]

Michele Wie may end up dominating women's golf one of these years but if she does she won't do it with her present arsenal. She's a truly hybrid ball striker for a women and certainly one so young but if she's going to dominate women's golf someday, she'll need to learn to chip a bit better and probably to putt a lot better. But her long game and ball striking, in my opinion, is as good, and even as creative right now as any women of any age who ever lived!

[Bill_McBride]

Usually it's "cherchez la femme," in this case it's "cherchez le money," but it seems to have worked for the USGA - huge crowds undoubtedly there in part to see Ms. Wie.  It's all about marketing, and certainly the LPGA could use some.  You gotta know they are salivating about the entry of Michelle on their tour.

[John_Conley]

Tom Doak:

Yes, there will still be complaints.  But anyone who is even remotely familiar with her game is NOT surprised that she finished in the Top 15.

P.S. to Klein:

I'd recognize that voice anywhere!  (Question to Mallon about talking to Rosales.)

[Carlyle Rood]

(a) Wie has qualified for a Women's U.S. Open before.  She did so for the 2003 Open through the traditional qualifying tournament.  Can we please stop revisiting this argument that she needs to experience qualifying firsthand?  She did.  She's been there.  She's done that.  Move on.

(b) Her performance in tournaments this season would have earned her an invitation as a professional.  I certainly don't understand why amateurs should be required to meet a higher standard than professionals.

(c) The USGA can hand out exemptions to whomever they choose.  They conduct the tournament.  It's within their providence.  They recognized their exemption guidelines were omitting an obviously qualified candidate.  They remedied their omission by granting her a special exemption.  It's one of the reasons they award exemptions.  Thank goodness they had the wisdom to use it.

[Lance Rieber]

Where's the Paula Creamer Love?  She finished second two weeks ago in an LPGA event and tied Wie for low Amateur at the Orchards.  Way to go!

[JohnV]

Lance, Creamer is definitely deserving of attention also.  She has been playing great.  Has she ever said if she was planning on college or is going pro right away?

[DTaylor18]

John, Creamer has basically said she'll be turning pro shortly.  She certainly seems to have the game for it, based on her recent results.

[David_Tepper]

Carlyle Rood-

Well said - you hit the nail squarely on its head.

DT

[Steve Lang]

 

MW,..Yeah... She has the brains of a 14 year old, personality of cardboard.  She needs to work on that.. and her short game.

[Phil_the_Author]

Carlyle, you wrote, "Wie has qualified for a U.S. Open before. She did so for the 2003 Open through the traditional qualifying tournament. Can we please stop revisiting this argument that she needs to experience qualifying first hand? She did. She's been there. She's done that. Move on."

What does that have to do with anything?

Let's go one better. In 2002 I wrote to David Fay (of course he didn't respond) suggesting that Curtis Strange be given a special exemption. My reasons were as follows:
1- He was a two-time U.S. Open CHAMPION.
2- He was the current Captain of the U.S. Ryder Cup team that had to endure another year of work & preparation for the matches that were delayed due to 9/11. This was important because it is now understood that one of the prices paid by those given this honor, is that their own games suffer greatly because of it. Especially because of the message that would send honoringt the hard work he was doing for his team, the game and the country, he deserved the exemption.

Curtis failed to make it into the championship in Sectional Qualifying. He also never asked for one. Oh yes, Nick Faldo, a six-time major championship winner was given one, mostly to help him to extend his major championship playing streak.

Now, if he doesn't deserve one under those circumstances, why should a 14-year old girl be given one when her accomplishments, for all of her immense potential, really haven't been all that impressive?

Is it possible that if she were actually playing under the pressure of HAVING to make a living and support her family that she would have done as well? That is a very unknown quantifier.

You are right; it is the USGA's party and they can invite who they like. But since they put on one that comes into my yard it does give me the right to question the wisdom of whom they invite.

[TEPaul]

Steve Lang:

In my opinion, if probably 95% of those on this board could use Michelle Wie's 14 year old "brains" whenever they go out to play golf they'd very likely lower their scores significantly. As for her personality, you're right, she doesn't have much at all on the golf course---she's unusually reserved and quiet. She and her caddie seem to move along even amongst many spectators in sort of a cacoon and when they communicate it's in a virtual whisper. Even if you get involved with her in a ruling context, she says almost nothing, only listening carefully to do what's asked of her! It's an example of contrasts to see her close and in person--she's probably 6' or taller but her face and expression is so young and callow.

All in all I think Michelle Wie is good for golf. It's just amazing to see the impact a young teenager has had on so many! At this point it's obviously as much curiosity as anything else, but when all ages and golfers of all ilks see her play in person they all seem to be amazed--most particularly her tee to green game!

How would you feel, for instance, if you had gotten to the level of a senior Stanford team golfer and you had a 14 year old girl match you in every way shot for shot all day long?

[David_Tepper]

TEPaul-

You stated "All in all I think Michelle Wie is good for golf." Forgive me for being curious, but in what way(s) could Michelle Wie possibly be bad for golf?  I cannot imagine any.

DT