Only One Good Course in Chicago...

[Andy_Lipschultz]

On the Sports Illustrated online golf section, there was a column by Michael Silver which included the following from Frank Hannigan in response to how easy Olympia Fields played on Thursday...

"They can only do so much with hole locations,” Hannigan said. "This is a very soft U.S. Open golf course, and let's face it -- it's in Chicago, so it's flat. We all know there's only one really good golf course in Chicago, and that's the Chicago Golf Club. Realize that this is not a course where the staff wanted to go. This was a political deal done six or seven years ago. The USGA president, Buzz Taylor, was from Chicago, and he thought it would be good to bring an Open there, and people went along with it."

I have no clue as to Chicago golf, but is he correct in this assessment?

[Rick Shefchik]

I don't know Frank Hannigan, but John Feinstein writes about him fairly extensively in his current book "Open." He seems to like Hannigan, but he makes it fairly clear that Hannigan does not care for David Fay and the current USGA brass. I would take almost anything Hannigan says or writes about the USGA and the decisions they make with at least a pinch of salt.

[Geoff_Shackelford]

During the months leading up to Riviera hosting the US Senior Open, the decision was made to go to Olympia Fields and most of the staffers I talked to were very surprised by the choice. After some time, most hinted or flat out told me that this was Buzz Taylor's choice over the staff recommendation.

Feinstein's book gets into the site selection process a bit and the politics of the Executive Committee. Probably not thrilling reading to most golfers, but a fascinating look inside the USGA and the current Executive Director's fascination with profit despite their non-profit, tax exempt status. That's one of many reasons Hannigan doesn't have much in the way of nice things to say about the person he groomed and recommended for the job.

[ForkaB]

The USGA selects its Open venues for personal and/or political reasons?  I am shocked!

[Joel_Stewart]

Its one of the perks about being the President of the USGA, you get to choose one venue for the Open.

[Andy_Lipschultz]

Understand the political angle. However, is he correct that Chicago Golf Club is the only "really good golf course" in Chicago?

[Steve_Roths]

No, Chicago has two great courses.  Chicago Golf Club and Shoreacres.  Other than that, it is all bland.

[A_Clay_Man]

These blanket statements do little in the way of promoting discussion, save for an argument.

I have just returned from Chicago and bland is something I would never think of while at some venues. Especially Butler National, dubbs dread. You may not care for the style or all the trees but my reaction after touring Foxfoird hills was that the bar has been raised when it comes to middle of the road (pricewise) public golf.

[Mike Hendren]

I have only played one golf course in Chicago and firmly believe it is "really good."  There was nothing at all "bland" about Beverly CC, particularly the drop shot 6th, absurdly deep 8th green, the unbelievable natural contours of the 11th and 15th fairways and the unreadable 14th green, just to name a few.  

For Hannigan to make those statements after one round is ridiculous.  

There Paul, I'll save you the key-strokes.

Regards,

Mike

[Matt_Ward]

Once Medinah jumped "in bed" with the PGA the choices for a Chicago host site were narrowed considerably. The USGA was not about to be "second in line" to the needs and wishes of Medinah.

This weekend will tell us plenty about the North Course at olympia Fields and whether a return engagement is a possibility. From the media people I've talked top thus far the likelihood of that happening is at best 50/50.

One has to think that the 2010 Open looks to be Pebble's anyway.

P.S. Stevo -- you had half your list right -- just add Skokie and bump Shoreacres IMHO!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rick Shefchik,

I would take anything that Frank Hannigan says......seriously.

[Gary_Smith]

Matt,

2010 would be much too early to return to Chicago, regardless of venue. In reality, the Open really fluctuates between East and West, with a stop in the midwest thrown in occasionally. I look for the next midwest Open to be at Whistling Straits along about 2011, with a return to Chicago along about 2018 or so. By that time, a new generation will be running Medinah as well as the USGA and wedded bliss, or at least a one night stand, should occur. There was definitely some strained relationships between those two parties during and after the 1990 Open.

[Jonathan Cummings]

I played CGC two days ago and it is about as good as it gets.  Mickelson and Mediate were immediately behind me.  On my Doak scale CGC is certainly in the rarified "9" range.  But to imply that CGC is the only course worth playing in the Chicago area is just crazy.  Within 30 miles of the Sears tower there are tons of fun and worthy courses.  JC

[Paul Richards]

Sorry, but that quote:

>We all know there's only one really good golf course in Chicago

is one of the most stupid statements I have ever heard about golf!  

Mike, thanks for saving me a bunch of other key strokes!!

[Mike_Cirba]

After watching OF for two days, I have to say I'm more than disappointed after reading recently that the other serious candidate for the 2003 Open was Merion.

I mean, c'mon.  If the USGA was fearful of low-scoring at Merion, it seems right now that the only thing preventing these guys from completely tearing up OF is that they still believe they're playing a US Open course.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

Mike Cirba,

If the 2003 Open was held where you want, Mother Nature may have rained on your parade.  

As luck would have it, I think it would have been a disaster.

[Gary_Smith]

Mike Cirba,

I read that same article saying Merion was the other top contender for 2003. (was it in Golf Digest?) I think the article was wrong. The USGA wanted to return to Chicago for 2003, and it came down between Cog Hill and Olympia Fields, since Medinah eliminated itself through it's affiliation with the PGA.

The USGA visited Merion after the course was lengthened to 6700 yards sometime in the latter part of the '90s. Buzz Taylor also got his good friend Greg Norman and Nick Price to play Merion after the lengthening. Taylor made the announcement sometime thereafter during his presidency that Merion would not be considered for any future U.S.Opens. The official reason....lack of space for spectators and all the crap that goes with modern day Opens. The unofficial reason.....the feeling that the course is just too short and driver would be taken completely out of the player's hands. The late P.J. Boatwright said much the same thing about Merion when he was in charge of the Open setups.

I know you love Merion and it is truly a great, great course. To me at least, it is sad to see a wonderful old course jumping through hoops and changing itself in the effort to get an event it probably didn't have any real chance to get in the first place. The USGA has been known to use courses to strengthen it's bargaining position with other venues. I hope that wasn't the case with Merion and that they were tossed the Amateur as a bone for their efforts.

To me, it is almost a badge of honor if a course like Merion is considered too short for an Open. So what? It still is a great old course and will always retain a special place in the game.

P.S. I know some of the amateurs hit it as far or farther as the pros, and therefore the feeling that Merion is too short for the pros but okay for the amateurs doesn't make a whole lot of sense if one thinks about it. My thought is that for relatively lower profile events like the Amateur and Walker Cup the USGA is more willing to overlook it's concern with length issues and look towards rewarding and honoring the great old places like Merion, Chicago Golf, and the like. (of course they will also send the Amateur to other venues such as Pumpkin Ridge as a test run for possible Opens)

My $.02.

[Mike_Cirba]

Gary;

I agree with at least 90% of what you said.  It's especially ironic that the USGA is willing to host a US Amateur there with the long hitting kids, but the course is "too short" for the pros.

But, you've also got it completely right about the "carrot" that the USGA keeps holding out to the club that is causing them to make unwarranted changed to the course in hopes of currying favor for another US Open.  And, despite Price's visit a few years ago, that's not the end of the story.

It was reported on this site last fall that the USGA was going to do a detailed analysis of Merion as a US Open site, and give their findings to the course in the spring.  That was the last I heard of it.

Just yesterday, it was reported in the "Philadelphia Inquirer" that Michael Fay has been quoted as saying that he'd love to bring another US Open to Merion, but the USGA would have to adjust its thinking and accept the fact that there would "only" be 20,000 spectators a day on the course.  Fay cited the fact that the course has now been stretched to over 6,800 yards, and that additional acreage has been purchased by the club off the sixth hole (presumably for corporate tents) as positives.  He also claimed that he was going to meet with other USGA representatives this fall to examine the question of feasibility in detail.  

So, the carrot is still being held out, and as long as some slim margin of hope prevails, I imagine the club will continue on their course of doing anything they possibly can to the course to make it possible.  

It's a situation where the USGA should have sh*t or gotten off the pot a long time ago, because they aren't doing the club or the course any favors.

Speaking of course changes, does anyone really believe that making bunkers deeper affects players at the professional level after watching recovery shots at Olympia Fields?  It seems to me that only if bunkers play as hazards, with uncertain results and consequences should one enter them, that 60+ degree wedges have taken all of the challenge out of the depth equation.  

[Gary_Smith]

Mike,

I didn't know about Fay's new comments and the new reevaluation of Merion. I would like to see the Open go back there just to see what would happen. If it does, better hope for dry and screaming fast.

My guess is that Aronimink may also get consideration for an Open. But who knows, they may be in negotiation for a future PGA and the Senior PGA was the prelude. I'm sure the USGA would like to hold a Philadelphia area Open.

[Rick Shefchik]

So, Patrick, does that mean you agree with Hannigan that there is only one really good golf course in Chicago?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Rick, I have to agree with Pat on this one. I don't think Mr. Hannigan is perfect, but he is much wiser to the world and more true to the Game then David Faye...A person who doesn't have an ounce of respect for on this website, and its discussion group particpants...This stupid website that he doesn't log on to.

[cary lichtenstein]

There are more than 1 good golf course in Chicago.

Cog Hill is a terrific course, most probably the best in Chicago

[larry_munger]

Maybe it should have been titled "world class" the Us Open should be held at a "world class" golf course and from the little I have seen this year doesn't fit the bill, this in my mind has nothing to do with the scoring. My definition of "WC" is top 25-35 in the World, top 20 USA.

[A_Clay_Man]

Here's one for the should've and could've's:

Jackson Park GC, located on the early southeast side, was the first public course to open west of the alleghenies. Following the hoopla at BB in 2002 about PUBLIC golf. The rees re-do would've been an awesome gift to the good people of Chicago and an apprpriate payback to us Public types. Plus, there is tons of room for all the tents, lengthening and other ammenities needed. I also could've bought the house I grew-up in, and once again, hopped the fence  . Oh yeah how about this little fact. The opening date of the first public course west of the alleghenies, happens to be my birthday coincidence or Karma...?    You decide.

It is painfully obvious that the size of the market, for determing the site, is paramount in the usga's modus. Maybe That's why I feel Whistling Straits has as much chance as Black Mesa, or Wild Horse.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rick Shefchik,

So, Patrick, does that mean you agree with Hannigan that there is only one really good golf course in Chicago?

I don't know how you make that quantum leap in interpretive logic.

I said,
"I would take anything that Frank Hannigan says.....seriously."

I regard him as a credible, intelligent individual with a great deal of experience in the world of golf.