Dumbed Down Architecture

[Mike Hendren]

On the driver par-3 thread, one sentiment was that a hole of such distance should be roomy.  Stated otherwise, the hole should be "dumbed down" because of its length.  

At the risk of starting another Rees bashfest, is that what we saw at Torrey Pines last week?  Redundantly long par fours with a series of fairway bunkers down the side of the fairway?  Narrow the long tee boxes and it looked like RTJ redux.  

Are distance and strategy mutually exclusive?

Regards,

Mike

[JakaB]

Mike,

I could not only play 12, 13 and 14 at Torrey Pines South everyday...I could watch the pros play them everyweek...quite a compliment.

12....I don't carry a card when I play and seldom look at tee marker distances...but when I got to 13 green and saw the familiar greenside bunkers...thanks TommyN for the pics...I asked my playing partners if the back nine had back to back par 5's.....Damdest thing was I just finished the 12th and thought I made a good par because after hitting Driver, hack 7 wood out of the rough, 7iron to the green and two putt...I thought I had played a par 5.    And really didn't everyone love seeing Tiger hit big drive - great 4 iron to a safe place short of the hole....Just a great championship balls to the walls par four.

13...Proves to me how old and short I must be seeing the pros hit this green in two easier than 12...nice little risk/reward par 5...fun birdie after scores of people just butchered 11 and 12.

14...One of the best green sites I have ever played....a skyline green with the canyon behind....I absolutely love hazards behind a green....last day..last group all three players hit punch shots into the green....the skyline green with no backdrop and the hazard long makes the best in the world adjust their ball flight...really good stuff....and with the ground firm its a Driver - mid iron hole even for a fat boy like me.

Seriously....I have heard alot of talk about how Tiger out strategized Phil this week.....I give the course a little credit for allowing the smartest player to win....I think its just a great championship layout and wish my taxdollars were at work at such a fine facillity I could play on a regular basis.

[Slag Bandoon]

Torrey Pines was one of the most disappointing courses I've ever played.  I have never played such a cookie cutter design before or since.

 Here is the scorecard with hole renderings.
 http://www.onlinegolfsolutions.com/golf/scorecards/images/torpins1.jpg

  Distance and strategy mutually exclusive?  Good question... It comes down confidence with the driver off the tee AND the deck and if our goals are targetted for pars or not.  

[JakaB]

Slag,

That is not the card from the redesign of Mr. Jones...I have only played the new course and never had the chance to play the original....Send me or post your fax# and I will send you a copy of the new card...color or black.

[Slag Bandoon]

J aka B,  No faxo machino en mi casa.  I do have the eFax.com program if you can send me a download of fax.  Or if you've a scanner, the file.

  Thank you kindly,  Slag  

[JakaB]

Sorry...me no scan...I really hate computers and look forward to the day they are obsolete or illegal.   I will fax to a third party if they could then scan and sent to you...if you negotiate a transfer...

I did like comparing your old card to the current....Torrey Pines is the only Rees Jones course I recall playing and must say he built and excellent championship venue...I would love to go to Bethpage someday and compare his work....my opinions are only based on the little I know and what even less I have seen but looking at the card in my hand I would have to say that I really enjoyed playing the following holes at TPS....2,3,4,6,11,12,13,14 and 17.  The only thing I really hated was the pond on the 18th....I didn't know it existed before I played the hole and the only indication from the fairway are the stupid yellow stakes...its just so damn out of character...but I am glad to see it must be original...and if Billy Bell thought it was a good idea..I can live with it...pissofftedly as I might.

btw...don't forget the third party fax #...cause I know you will love the new card.   ps...my round at Torrey was the first and only time I ever played golf with an African American...and there is a picture of one on the card....not the same guy...my guy was taller.

[CHrisB]

Slag & JakaB,

Go to http://www.torreypinesgolfcourse.com/southcourse.htm to check out a map/routing of the course with a graphical display of each hole (hole yardage from each tee, distance to hazards, sprinkler head yardages, green shape and depth).  Just like the yardage book; pretty darn neat-looking and informative.

And much less effort for both of you!

[Slag Bandoon]

 I found the new layout at...

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/golf/buick/buick.html

[Slag Bandoon]

 JakaB,  Look at the bunker pre-Rees on 10,12, and 15.  Rees actually manufactured more of those ubiquitous Elvis Sideburn Bunkers.  

 I have not played the "new and improved" course, and I am no player of competition level and these are only renderings but, I don't feel the need to play it or think that I could be inspired by the new stuff.  It just doesn't draw me.  

Some of the new fairway "love handle" bunkers are only doubled up for the longer ball defenses.  I just don't see any artistic brilliance here or on the tv.  

I am glad you had a terrific time there, though, as I'm sure I'm just missing the formula of its success. Whisky perhaps.