Better than Pebble (Trump Content)

[Jfaspen]

For those apprentice fans, Donald just claimed that the Trump National Golf Club in Southern California would be one of the "world's great golf courses" when complete.  Even rising above the lauded Pebble Beach.  
For anyone familiar with the site, is there truth to this statement, or is this typical Trump propaganda?

Jeff

[Norbert P]

... is this typical Trump propaganda?

Were his lips moving?  He has all the credibility of any other self-promoter.  

[Tyler Kearns]

There was an article on the collapse of the 18th hole at the then Ocean Trails GC, designed by Pete Dye, in the Oct. 26, 2001 Golf World. The collapse occured in June of 1999, and is rumoured to have been caused by a leaky sewer which led to the fairway sliding on an inches thick layer of bentonite within the soil. Overall, the repairs were projected to cost $20 million and 2 million cubic yards of earth was to be moved.

Tyler Kearns

[Bob_Huntley]

How on earth can anyone give credence to anything this man says. His ridiculous hairstyle with dyed ends makes him out to be a mountebank.

Surely, he is one of the most odious men in the public eye.

[Robert Thompson]

Actually, he said something about the project costing $200-million, making it the most expensive course built in the world. Not sure what that was about -- maybe the land cost him $200-million to build. Certainly it didn't cost that simply to build one hole....

Course does look pretty neat -- though I'm sure The Donald will find a way to put in some fake waterfalls and other ostentatious frills.

Robert

[Wayne Freeman]

I've been out there and played 3 times-  I don't know what the Donald has been smoking but there's no way that course could ever rival Pebble.  True it does have  ocean views, but the basic design is very average and there are just too many short holes.  There was not enough acreage to start with and I don't see how they can really make it that great. The clubhouse and food are super and the restaurant is beautifully situated.  

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Wayne, and of course The Great One hit on it pretty good here. Bob, I'm still mesmerized by your knowledge of the english vocabulary!

I would say the closest that The Donald could come to making the place even mentioned in the same sentence as PB would be to tear it all down including all of the houses and trailer park thats sits just due South at the former site of Billy Bell's The Royal Palms/San Pedro Golf & Country Club/St. Andrews By-the-Sea.

Now that would be something that could be impressive! (and of course impossible!)

[rjsimper]

I think the costs of the land (VERY pricy in the area) the course, and the re-construction costs of the 18th hole could reasonably add up to the price.

Anyone wanna play out there some weekend?  Its 130 bucks or so to play unlimited golf, and Id like to play before the Donald makes it into a 400 dollar a round atrocity.

[Evan_Green]

So this is a public course? Why not private like Trump NY and FL?

Does it have a website by chance?

Evan

[rjsimper]

So this is a public course? Why not private like Trump NY and FL?

Does it have a website by chance?

Evan

The current site is www.oceantrails.com

The abridged version of the story is this:

Course was completed in 2000- weeks before it was to open, the bluffside 18th slid into the ocean.

Blame for the slide has been shuffled around, from poor land charts to a leaking sewage pipe to others, no litigation was ever secured.  

The developers ran out of $$ very quickly.  The course operated since then and to this day as Ocean Trails (its original name) and charges around 100 bucks to play the 15 holes as many times as you want.  

Trump bought it maybe 2 years back, and the stipulations were that it would remain public (speculation on my part, but I have heard him speak as though he is forced into such an arrangement)  In any event, he is putting in the money to bringing new land in and constructing a stable foundation upon which to re-build the 18th.

It is due, as the Donald said, to open as Trump National LA in August, so I'm hoping to play before then!

[Evan_Green]

Ryan-

Thanks for that info.

That makes sense that he would be forced to keep it private- The CA coastal commission is very strong on those kind of issues. I remember when there was an attempt in the early 90's to privatize Pebble Beach by the Japanese owners that it was killed by the Coastal Commission.

Evan

[Evan_Green]

Also with regard to it being the best course in California- better than Pebble- i seem to remember Trump raving that the Briarcliff Manor course is better than Winged Foot. Do you think he really thinks that or he just says it for the press?

[DMoriarty]

Better than Pebble?  Nope.

Top 10 Public Access Course in Southern California?  Nope.  

Mr. Trump apparently hasn't heard that if you want to build a world class course it helps to have a world class site.  While Ocean Trails' site has nice views, it is a bad site for golf.  Steep slope down toward the ocean, with most of the fairways terraced back and forth across the hill.  Mounding in between the fairways to protect the golfers adjacent and below.  

[David Kelly]

Its not even the best course in Palos Verdes.

[TEPaul]

I was talking to TommyN about Trump (amongst other things) yesterday. Trump has a carefully constructed modus operandi and caricature image that's an interesting cross between Toynbee's remark (I think);

"No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public"

and,

PT Barnum's quote (I think);

"A sucker is born every minute".

Trump did say that "Trump National" course in LA was going to be the most expensive course in history ($200 mil).

However, for both historical interest and comparison we should note that other great course promoter of his day, C.B. Macdonald (who really did have taste), was not averse to bragging about what his golf courses cost, including Mid Ocean, Yale ($450,000) and particularly Lido ($750,000-$800,000). The latter in its day was probably perceived to be as expensive as Trump National LA in our day.

Bob Huntley:

Donald Trump's hair, I'm also convinced, has to be a carefully thought out caricature too----it's just so bad I think it actually works to get the effect he's probably looking for. It'd be virtually impossible, in my opinion, for anyone on Earth to be serious with a haircut like that!  

[Steve Lapper]

Anyone care to bet me that upon opening Trump National at Bedminister, NJ, the "clogged human follicle" himself, declares it superior to Pine Valley or Baltusrol?

The sad fact is the 150 "suckers (paid-in members)" will likely agree or believe him....thus proving P.T. Barnum's tenet.

The funniest part of last night's show was the Huckster's declaration of "NO CHEATING" at his charity tournament....something akin to one of his club's better known member's statements along the lines of "I never did have sex with that intern........."

They all surely deserve each other!

[Will E]

The Donald claims his course will be better than Pebble Beach.
Then he hires a cat that wore two golf gloves while acting like the Mad TV UPS driver.
Man was I laughing. BUT we were all watching weren't we??

[Jfaspen]

Trump claimed that Briarcliff Manor was the best course in NY...  Evidently he hasn't been invited to play NGLA, Winged Foot, Shinnicock, ect.

jf

Also with regard to it being the best course in California- better than Pebble- i seem to remember Trump raving that the Briarcliff Manor course is better than Winged Foot. Do you think he really thinks that or he just says it for the press?

[Paul_Turner]

From what's been posted here, the comment wasn't surprising at all.  Pretty funny really.  I quite like the bloke.  

A GCAer has a good story about caddying for Trump at Winged Foot and misclubbing him...where are you Mark?

[Ben Cowan-Dewar]

I for one will be interested in seeing the final new holes. I walked the fringes of them with one of the construction guys and looks interesting. As mentioned, the site is so severe that it is tough to yield great golf and the severe cuts look a little like Lost Canyons, but some of the green complexes are neat. I was not crazy about the course, but when they have a configuration of 18 holes in place, I will go see it again. Aside from Rustic, it still has to be one of the best public courses in the L.A. area. Lastly, I will say that at sunset, it is one of the most spectacular places I have seen.

Some photographic evidence, so that everyone can comment.  


The current third hole


The current 11th hole


The current 10th hole

[Mike Benham]

On the final episode of the Apprentice last night, the "winner" got his choice of jobs, either the General Manager at Trump National Golf Course or the construction of the Trump International Hotel in Chicago ... and he chose building the hotel ...

[THuckaby2]

The Donald claims his course will be better than Pebble Beach.
Then he hires a cat that wore two golf gloves while acting like the Mad TV UPS driver.
Man was I laughing. BUT we were all watching weren't we??

I can proudly say I never watched a single second of "The Apprentice", and I don't intend to change that with the "The Apprentice II."

That is, unless they move it from Thursday nights.  That's sacred time.  Survivor is on.

 

Long live Lex - you were robbed my friend!  Proud graduate of Santa Clara University.

Now as for this SoCal golf course, well... looks to me like it fits in well beside Pelican Hill.


TH

[Robert Kimball]

I was wondering how long it would take to get a thread going about this!! I was laughing to myself last night when they were showing gratutious shots of the waterfalls!!
I said to my fiance: "Oh I bet this will get the web site guys going tomorrow."  
As far as better than pebble, I haven't been there so I can't comment.  Give me Half Moon Bay anytime!!  

[Mike Hendren]

Bob,

What is a mountebank?

Mike,

Anyone who wouldl choose to build a hotel over managing a golf course is a lunatic.  I would have fired him after the fact.  BTW, I can proudly state that I never watched the show.  Notwithstanding the fact that I am a red-neck from way back (we turn orange in the fall - right JB?) I have never watched reality TV for more than five minutes while switching the channels and looking for a professional wrestling show.

Mike

[A_Clay_Man]

It was telling about Bill, the winner, that he chose to stay in Chitown. Similar to Moses and the hot coal. If Bill had chosen the golf/residential gig, it would've showed an interest in the "flash". The lure of that California project was great, but if Bill knew anything about ocean trails, he likely knew part of it fell into the ocean. A prospect most flatlanders would gladly never want to risk expereincing. By choosing the skyscraper it exhibited his desire to work, rather than schmooze and B.S.

On topic. I saw a few trees that looked like goal posts on TN.

And, to a person, if you owned a golf course, wouldn't that be alot better golf course, than the ones you don't own?