Ten most recognized names in golf architecture

[Richard Mandell]

I am looking for a little, very unbiased, feedback on what would people say are the ten most recognized golf course architects in the world.  Let me stress exactly what I am looking for:  Generally a sort of man on the street asking who are the golf architects the public would most recognize.  This has nothing to do with ability, popularity, or talent.  Striclty name recognition.  This also means that most of the GCA favorites would probably not be included in this list.  Please be as open-minded as possible and look at this task as an "out of GCA body experience".  Oh yeah, you don't have to include my name in the list.  I'm just trying to do a little marketing research.

Thanks

[JSlonis]

Rich,

Are you looking for just names of current architects, or names from the past as well?

[Richard Mandell]

Jamie:

I am just looking for current architects.  In making a list you can think of a list the "mainstream media" may create.  Thanks.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Not in any order: Fazio, Nicklaus, Palmer, Arthur Hills, Rees Jones, Player, Robert Trent Jones Sr., Pete Dye, Donald Ross

[JSlonis]

The Mainstream Media Ten: no particular order...

Dye, Fazio, Nicklaus, Palmer, Rees Jones, Art Hills, Norman, Doak, C&C, Player

Getting "fringe" media votes:  Hanse, Hurzdan & Fry, Faldo

[Mike_Sweeney]

Richard,

This also follows my thought process that it is difficult to have a second "Golden Age" as this list will be dominated with Pro Players. To my knowledge there we no Pro Players as architects (were there pro players ?) during the Golden Age. Here is my version of a USA Today poll:

1. Jack Nicklaus
2. Arnold Palmer
3. Rees Jones
4. Greg Norman
5. Tom Fazio
6. Gary Player
7. Tom Weiskoff
8. Ben Crenshaw (not Coore & Crenshaw)
9. Fred Couples
10. Ernie Els

Since your question is "most recognized names", I am assuming you are talking about the general public, this list is dominated by Pro Players who have won Majors, especially The Masters. I seriously would not be surprised to see Tiger on this list as I think the general public is clueless about architecture.

[Richard Mandell]

Craig:

Of your nine, RTJ and Ross are dead, can you replace them and add one more?  Thanks.

Jamie:

Do you think that CNN would know enough to include Doak or C & C?  Or someone standing on the first tee at TPC Sawgrass or The Old Course?  Just curious, not being antagonistic.

[Richard Mandell]

Mike:  Thanks for your list.  As I review it, I think I would rather take my CNN or USA Today references away and rephrase my list request to asking the average Joe golfer on the first tee anywhere in the world.

Thanks.

[JSlonis]

Rich,

I think the average Joe Golfer would have trouble coming up with ten current names. They could probably give you five to seven names and then have difficulty finishing the list.

[Richard Mandell]

Jamie:

I agree with you, so maybe the list is only seven long.  But how would it change from a regional perspective?  Say someone at Raleigh CD versus Burning Tree (in DC) vs.  Winged Foot vs. Medinah vs. Riviera?

[JSlonis]

Rich,

I think you would get the similar 5 to 7 names anywhere, and then regionally you would get some different names.  For example if you asked this question in Raleigh you might get Maples on the list due to his work in the Carolina's.

[Tom Doak]

Richard --

I'd second the top seven names on Mike Sweeney's list, plus Pete Dye -- he's falling out of the limelight pretty quickly, but they still play a couple of big events on his courses, so that keeps his name in the public eye.

The average Joe hasn't heard much at all about Bill Coore or about me.  We don't even score regionally since our work is spread thin around the country.  The funny thing is, that's perfectly fine with us!  We are looking for a few clients who appreciate what we do -- not 100 calls from people who need our names to sell a housing development!

Bill and Ben have always had to deal with this element some, because of Ben's name, but I think they've kept a low profile for long enough that they don't get many of those calls anymore.  I'm just starting to get some of them because of Pacific Dunes.  I guess I should be flattered.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Richard,

      Here's 3 more:  Greg Norman, Fred Couples, Tom Weiskoff

[Forrest Richardson]

Nicklaus (includes Jackie), Palmer (et al), Robert Trent Jones II, Fazio, Pete Dye (includes the clan), Weiskoff, Norman, Morrish

Beyond this seven it is a free-for-all -- you also have the Rees confusion in that many have heard of "Jones" and assume it's all one happy firm, so I suppose you could add Rees as an eighth to the above, but it may be misleading as I didn't add Perry, P.B, etc.

When it comes to pros the average guy will list any he's ever heard of...whether they maintain design offices, or not.

Morrish is listed because most average guys still use Jay's name along with Tom's -- I'm sure to both's amusement.

[Steve L.]

Depends on what region you are in...

In the west, Weiskopf is easily in the top ten.  In the southeast, Davis Love III is definately in the top ten.

Each from a "Joe Public's" familiarity point of view.

List from my region (Southeast) would probably go (generally in order):

Nicklaus
Fazio
Palmer
Dye
Rees Jones
Hills
D. Love III
Norman
Bobby Weed
(tie) Couples/Crenshaw (not C&C)

[jg7236]

Nicklaus
Palmer
Fazio
Dye
Robert Trent Jones II
Rees Jones
Arthur Hills
Hurdzan/Fry
Cornish/Silva/Mungeam

[Paul Turner]

In Britain Donald Steel is still quite a big name.  But the rest are the same professional golfers listed above, with Faldo probably near the top.  Although, I must say that architects are generally much less well known in Britain.  You never hear the architect's name announced on the Telly.

(Of the dead architects I think Colt, Braid and Mackenzie are the best known, Fowler isn't well known)

[Brian Phillips]

Paul,

That's because they haven't really done much worth talking about.  The only bloke who mentions architects is Peter Aliss and that is about himself and Dave Thomas.

Brian.

[Derek Duncan]

It's hard to believe that some people somewhere would not mention Joe Lee given that he's had a hand in the design of hundreds of golf courses.

[Richard Mandell]

Love the inut, thanks.

TOm Doak:  Be flattered that the phone rings.  You know its better than making calls yourself.  I am working hard to simply get the phone calls coming in than going out.  Good work.

My list:

Fazio
Pete Dye
Rees Jones
Robert Trent Jones, Jr.
Nicklaus
Palmer
Player
Hills
Hurdzan ?
Cupp?

Just off the list:  Morrish, Weiskopf.

I was also thinking maybe Cornish due to his books and dominance in New England.

Keep the lists coming, thanks.

[B_Wilburn]

Dye
Nicklaus
RTJ JR
Palmer
Norman
Hills
Fazio
Faldo
Player
Rees Jones

?:
Hurdzan
Cupp
Weed

Soon to be:
Kyle Philips -  due to Kingsbarns
Strantz  - a true artistic approach

Like everything else, it depends on location I think.  This list could change whether you were in Florida, Indiana, Colorado, Australia, or Scotland.  

[Joe Hancock]

A Western  Michigan list:

No particular order:

Art Hills
Mike DeVries
Tom Doak
Jerry Matthews
Bruce Matthews III
W. Bruce Matthews (deceased)
Rees Jones
Rick Smith
Jack Nicklaus
Arnold Palmer

[B_Wilburn]

JHancock...Thanks for proving my point

[ian]

While I like a lot of the fringe names, are many of them not wishful thinking on the authors behalf. My list:

1 Nicklaus, world wide force
2 Palmer, 100's of courses
3 Fazio, king of architects (Golf Digest, 10 years ago)
4 Pete Dye, American Express commercials and all
5 Rees Jones, public knows him as Open Doctor
6 Player, 100's of courses world wide
7 Weiscopf, many tournaments are played on his work
8 Norman, many high profile courses all over world
9 Peter Thompson extremely well known in south and far east
10 Donald Steele, major force in all of europe

[Paul Turner]

Paul,

That's because they haven't really done much worth talking about.  The only bloke who mentions architects is Peter Aliss and that is about himself and Dave Thomas.

Brian.

Brian

Yeah, you lot are bloody useless  

Alliss's article after in Golf World Top 100 list was interesting.  He whinged about some of the courses that were included and then two of his suggested replacement courses were his own!

He also had a fit about The Marquess at Woburn and design credit.