Friar's Head course profile is posted

[Andrew Roberts]

I was speechless earlier and still am.  This course looks absolutly amazing!

[Pete Lavallee]

  WOW !!!   Thanks for the great profile.

[RJ_Daley]

OK, how about this.  The next Ryder Cup venue!

[TEPaul]

Friar's Head looks about as good as it can get to me. That bunker work is unbelievably good, everything the natural look that's discussed so much can be on a golf course. And the gentle undulating contouring on the flatland fairways is something to see to--a real example of sophisticated architectural creation.

The expanses of sand way off the playing areas on some holes is so stunning. If Ken Bakst comes on here it would be interesting to know how that natural sandy waste area would be maintained in the future or if it needs to be at all. In other words, if it was compeletly left alone how much would it naturally vegetate or not?

[Bronco]

Thanks for this most interesting course profile.

It really just confirms my suspicions a bit more, that C&C (and the boys) are destined to ultimately be considered alongside the greats of all-time.  Perhaps the "Mackenzies" of their day.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Ran,

I think you're hole by hole "write up" was terrific.

I suspect the black and white photos provide the appeal GCA likes, a "period" presentation for their preference for classic courses and the rough, natural look.  One could easily mistake the location for the Monterey Penisula.

There are some facets of the golf course that the pictures and your write up don't convey.

I feel that the key is the man in charge, his beliefs, standards and guiding hand.

One of those attributes is the culture that Ken is creating.
Bringing golf back to a "Golden Age" in more than just looks. The absence of yardage markers on sprinkler heads, monuments, the need for caddies, no rakes in or around bunkers, a brisk pace of play, an "encouragement" to play the course that best suits your game.  Neat flags and flag sticks,
Firm, fast conditions, contoured greens.  A great golf experience on a great golf course.

Another attribute is the WIND and its impact on the play of the golf course.  It has a fabulous effect, causing you to play different shots on the same hole on different days.

Yet another is the play of the course.  And don't let looks deceive you.  Some of the good holes don't have the massive, stunning dunes as a complimentary companion.

I can't think of a better facility for a serious golfer, irrespective of their handicap.  Geoff Childs hit the nail on the head, the par 3 course, the world class range, putting, chipping and pitching areas, the culture and the golf course provide an incredible combination that is a golfers paradise.  Oh, and did I mention the WIND.

Friar's Head represents a perfect blend of site, developer and architect.

[Tom MacWood (Guest)]

The photos of the golf course really are startling. Certainly the black and white pictures conjure up visions of MacKenzie, Simpson, Colt, et al; but it also brings focus to the strategic aspects of the golf course. Beyond its natural beauty it is clear that this is a thought provoking well-designed golf course.

It appears to me that the A&C movement is alive and well. Coore, Crenshaw and company seem to be in accord with Wright's philosophy that architecture should grace the landscape instead of disgrace. Ironic considering the course's turbulant short history. I just hope I have the pleasure of seeing it some day.

Another outstanding profile by Ran, no one today does a better job of writing an interesting analysis of a golf architecture. It should not be ignored that Friars Head guards its privacy perhaps more than any modern golf course, perhaps more than any golf course period. I do not anticipate a great number of featured articles; it is to Ran's credit and what he has created here that Ken would grant this profile and photo essay. I think it says something about Ken and it says something about GCA.

[TEPaul]

redanman:

You got that right about the photographs of Friar's Head! What the hell can anyone tell from those? Just looks like any other old course anywhere else, right?

Yeah Right!

[Greg Stebbins]

I have been lucky enough to play this course, and yes, it is as good as it looks in these pictures.  Great write up!

[Matt Dupre]

To post a profile like this, while half of the east coast sits under 2 feet of snow, is almost sadistic  

The B&W photos are absolutely stunning, the way they show the contour of the ground and the wonderful bunkering.  That's most evident by the difference between the picture of the 15th in the profile and the same view that Ran used to grace this thread.  Color is pretty, but if you want to FEEL the hole....I'm a convert.

I've always believed that one of the measures of a golf course is the number of holes you remember.  I think I remember all of them just from the profile.  

This may have been addressed in previous threads, but what is the membership structure of the club?

[brad miller]

At Sand Hills C&C found many many golf holes and left us with a truely wonderful 18. At Friar's Head they had to work long and hard to find the one final key hole to what has become one of golf's great routings, a great walk from the dunes back out, back in, back out and finally back in again. The flow and pace is fantastic, one will have to look long and hard to find the hand of man. Doesn't this say something about their work.

[TEPaul]

It's odd, but there's only one hole at Friar's that won't stick in my mind but this is just from having walked around a few times and before the course was completely grassed in.

It's #12--and it's hardly ever mentioned either. But I do recall it and from the write up I bet it's a sleeper. I'm not that familiar with the prevailing wind but it might play up into a quartering wind. And I like the sound of that wide (35 yd) tee set-up too!

I'll be interested to hear how #17 comes into its own too. Looks like the green could do some damage to the unaware and unsuspecting!

[SteveC]

The suspense is killing me. How long has Friars Head been open? What is the membership structure? How does one join? What is the tariff? What a spectacular place. I was downright speechless as I checked out those photos and Ran's profile. Who took the pictures? They would make an awesome collection mounted on a wall in my office.

[Paul Daley]

Ran:

My hearty congratulations on your well written and heart-felt appraisal of Friar's Head. The sincerity you conveyed allied to the arresting scenery of the image was there for all to see. Surely, FH will become one of the most coveted courses in the world, post WW 11. With Cuscowilla; Sand Hills and now Friar's Head, Coore & Crenshaw must be in some sort of designing form, perhaps well on the way to emulating Nicklaus - the player - and that famous quip about being on a thirty-year streak! Goodness, if the firm can only sustain a fifteen-year streak, that wouldn't be so bad!    

What an exciting era is upon us. Developers of the ilk of M. Keiser, G. Ramsay and K. Bakst really do care about the state of the game: where its been; and where it's headed. We're in good hands, notwithstanding, their shared ability to gain access to great terrain must be the envy of fellow developers.

[John Conley]

I'm content to let this co-exist in the "As Good As It Gets" category with Sand Hills and a few others, but no doubt someone will be trying to pry an answer out of Jim Kidd as to which is better.

[Dan Kelly]

John Conley --

The question someone should ask Jim Kidd is:

Where are you headed, next time?  

[TEPaul]

Jim Kidd has said he thinks he's pretty much reached the pinnacle with owner Bakst and architects Coore and Crenshaw. He's said he would never be able to find anyone in the business that has more talent than them with the possible owner/architect combo of Donald Trump and Donald Trump.

[Magazine Rater]

Well, the much anticipated comparison is due.  It is now time to directly compare, rank and evaluate two of the greatest dunesland courses in all of history....Friar's Head vs. Sandpines!  

Let the competition begin!....oh hell, nevermind...

[John Foley]

Wow! Absolutely stunning. I had no idea that it was this stunning. First look at these is all I could think of was Geoff's book on Cypress. Please tell me that Ken B (and or someone else involved)  documented the build process, what an amazing book that would be.

A question though, looking at the photo's is the amount of exposed sand. Will the maintence practices be able to keep this or should we expect alot of ground cover grow in over the ages as happened at Cypress Point?

[M.W. Burrows]

I was playing Salem CC with John Morrissett about a month after it hosted the Senior Open in 2001.  John had just come from Long Island and had received a tour of Friar's Head with Ken.  So, here we are playing one of Donald Ross's masterpieces a month after a major and we spent no less than three holes speaking only about Friar's Head!  I think that says a lot.  

I was fortunate to get a tour of the course during construction when it was only sand littered with beech or pine trees.  It's really something to see the pictures of the final product.

One aspect that I feel needs mentioning is the fact that Ken sought out the best superintendents on the island for his course.  The man he hired, Bill Jones, formerly of the Creek, is one hell of a superintendent.  From what I hear he grew in that golf course at a record-setting pace with many environmental obstacles to overcome.  

[TEPaul]

John Foley asked:

"A question though, looking at the photo's is the amount of exposed sand. Will the maintence practices be able to keep this or should we expect alot of ground cover grow in over the ages as happened at Cypress Point?"

John:

This is precisely the same question I asked somewhere above. It's such an interesting question too and can ultimately mean so much to the look and maybe the playability of the golf course over time.

I’m losing my memory because now I recall just how intensely interested all those involved in Friar’s Head seem to be on this subject. Their answers, and I hope they give them, will tell us all much about the way the course will look and play many years from now and may say much too about the vastly changed look of Cypress Point from opening compared to the way it looks today.

I recall, I believe, how much Ken Bakst spoke about using natural grasses and such to the site, but also that it’s survival, maturation and evolution should be very natural too. Maybe this thought and process is sort of  “Darwinian” agronomics in those areas flanking the bodies of the holes themselves.

But the way the course looks now with the vast expanses of sand, seemingly lightly vegetated is such an impressive look generally and probably to the golfer psychologically too. It really does have the massive scale sand area look of the original photos of Cypress Point and certainly original Pine Valley too and also parts of original Shinnecock! But so much of that sandy/wasty scale is under vegetation now whether natural or created I do not know.

But how those areas will be allowed to mature, if they do need maintenance, or is the idea to preserve this present look? In many ways I hope so. But if the idea is not to maintain that massive sandy look what is expected to happen naturally over time?

I’ve often wondered if at Cypress (or the others too) if those massive sandy areas which appeared to come so close to the play of golf (fairways, greens, extremely low profile lips on bunkering etc) should have been allowed to remain that way due to problems of stability and particularly massive amounts of sand blowing and silting into areas where it was not intended to be with the resulting maintenance headaches if not even nightmares? In other words, do these massive areas of natural sand need substantial vegetation for support and stability? And furthermore if they do how much did an architect such as MacKenzie really understand that at the time of the design and construction of Cypress? Obviously the consistency of those sand areas (the fineness of the sand itself) must have a great deal to do with this entire issue.

I hate to have to say this but Shinnecock itself in the early photos had this same massive sandy/wasty areas that either had not naturally or had not been allowed to naturally vegetate. But it certainly has now and I believe the club is just beginning to understand the significance of returning that look to particularly some of the front nine holes. Restored the way it once was on holes like #5, #6 Shinnecock  will be unbelievably powerful and cool and was very much intended to have a visual and psychological impact on the golfer most particularly because these holes are flat terrain low profile anyway and Flynn & Co. very much intended those exact things in using that effect on the lowland front nine but not really the topographical back nine. This is not speculation on my part because we actually have in writing from an alternate professional opinion of that preconstruction time that that was the intention!

Anyway it will be fascinating to know what Friar’s Head intends to do with this look or if they even know. And it will say a lot about some of the other great old courses with this original look and what became of it and what may happen with restoration in the future.

[TEPaul]

Shivas:

Sure I can--vegetation and its root structure will lend additional support and stability to almost anything and most certainly to naturally changing sandy/dunsy areas.

To see how, anyone can simply walk through this type of natural sandy/dunsy area and see for themselves.

There happens to be a most perfect place to do this on either side of old A1A between Amelia Island and the naval base above Jacksonville. I've already photographed the hell out of that multiple mile stretch. It's massive and it's fascinating to see and in fairly high winds you can actually watch nature's own way of forming it, breaking it down and changing it in all kinds of amazing ways right before your eyes.

But the areas of natural vegetation hold the surface in place to a large degree and in juxtaposition to those areas the areas that aren't vegetated all kind of fascinating shapes, slopes and contours come to be formed by particularly the wind on the less stable sand only areas in relation to the vegetated sections that are holding their surfaces in place.

These are the kind of things that a guy like Jeff Bradley may sit and watch for maybe even hours and then say I think I can imitate that with bunkering and such. And then he does with some amazing handwork and imagination.

A lot on here seem to think much of what some of us say about creating naturalism in golf architecture is crap or doesn't really exist. Well it does exist and this is the way it's done.  

[FH Fan]

Some of you have wondered whether Ken documented any of the building processes. the answer is yes: he has taken hundreds of photos and copious notes.

Answer to John Conley: Jim Kidd ain't going anywhere!

Fuuny, but true, story: The infamous #10 has already made itself legendary. Here, on early, and obviously ignorant, member complained that the hole was "unfair, and poor design." He went on to descibe it as the "worst hole on the course." He was then given his sizable check back and informed he would no longer have to worry about it interfering with his lack of appreciation.

 The purist nature of this process, owner/devloper, club pro and selection of the membership looks likely to create the next greatest private golf club. If the local opposition don't exact too great a toll on the club's reasonable plans, the result will be glorious. Its the real thang!!

[John_Conley]

I think you meant Dan Kelly.

He makes a great point.  Front-run Kidd and you may find the next great golf course!

[Just Hoping]

Any chance that Friar's Head will be similar to Sand Hills at the beginning and allow some limited outside play.  I almost can't look at the pictures because it will kill me if I never get the chance to walk the land and experience it for myself.