2003 Golfweek Classical List

[jim_lewis]

Tom:

I think your comments to rpurd were meant for me.

I rarely "prevail" on a member for a favor to play a private course. I prefer to use my rater credentials for access even if I happen to know a member. For example, last year I accessed Shoreacrers and Skokie as a rater although I know several members. On the same trip I accepted an invitation from an old freind to play Chicago Golf, where I did not even mention being a rater. I have had the good fortune of being invited to play some fine private clubs, but if it is worth it, I will "prevail" on a member. In the past couple of years I have done that at Seminole, Honors Course, and Fishers Island. I may do the same this year at Crystal Downs and NGLA. It was/will be worth it!

Jim

[THuckaby2]

You don't seem "crusty" to me, Jim!  I do appreciate the response, and sorry for misdirecting my post before.

I believe I handle this the same as you - I can't imagine going somewhere as a guest of a member and then telling them whilst there that I'm on a rating panel for a magazine... what would be the purpose?

Interesting too... would being a rater even matter at many of the places you mention?  In my naivete, I just rely on what GD says, which makes it pretty clear which clubs want to accomodate raters and which don't... most of the ones you mention are very clearly on the "don't" side anyway!

I get what you said before though - with tact, anything is possible.  I'm just not sure I've developed such tact as of yet.

TH

ps - I too have been invited to many great places, some of which we likely have in common.  In each case I was and am most certainly very, very grateful... I guess "prevail" was too strong a word before.  Oh hell, I'm confused myself now!

[DTaylor18]

I agree that Taconic is one of the best classic courses I've ever played.  As to the previous question of whether it is private or not, the answer is sort of.  It is definitely open to the public, as it is owend by WIlliams College.  However, they don't make it easy for you, and there are members there who have priority.  So yes anyone can play it, but you better be flexible on when you're willing to play.  It's also very expensive for a course in the middle of nowhere, but  it's so good that it's worth it.  

[Chip Royce]

Sweet - Essex County Club squeaks upward to #57 on the classical list, even with the changes to the par 3, 13th that had to be built due to the uruly neighbor. (its replacement's a darn good hole, too, Tom D.)
Chip

[Matt_Ward]

I almost fell off my chair laughing when I saw Shoreacres listed as the 28th best classical course in the USA.
It seems certain raters from GolfWeek who fancy this "archiectural classic" are really into the Raynor experience although many of the holes at the layout are fairly pedestrian.

While Medinah is clearly a tougher layout than Shoreacres I'm not a fan of the course and don't see why these two layouts drop a bit further down the poll.

WHATEVER HAPPENED TO SKOKIE? I guess many people simply forgotten this gem. In my mind if Shoreacres and Medinah are in the first third of courses than Skokie has to be listed as well in the top 100.

A couple of other quick comments ...

*Yale rated in the top 100 INSPITE of mediocre turf conditions. Again, I believe we have a situation where people are rating the course who what it COULD BE rather than what it is.

*How does Saucon Valley merit inclusion of the Old & Grace Courses within the Top 100? I don't doubt the Old has some qualities but it's not enough to merit such an inclusion. The Grace is simply overrated in my book. How it maintains it's position simply amazes me.

*Interlachen and White Bear Yacht Club in the top 50. Really?

*When people harp on Bethpage Black I will concede an element of truth to the point about the fanfare attached to its hosting of the Open. However, if not 19th then what # would be fair? I can't see the Black being lower than 25th.

*Shinnecock Hills only at 5th? Can't see it. In my mind SH is the finest day-to-day course for all types of players and the ones ahead of it are clearly first rate layouts but in my book SH is the premier course in the USA. After the Open in '04 I'm sure SH will rise to the level it deserves.

*Fisher's Island and Prairie Dunes are both gems -- but 11th and 12th respectively? That's a bit too high in my book especially when Winged Foot / West and and Riviera are rated below it at 16th and 23rd respectively.

*Is Scioto really still a meritious selection for the top 50?

*Wykagyl in the top 100? A fine course no doubt but I see a stretch here because I can name several othert bonafide candidates that can meet and exceed the qualities of the New Rochelle layout.

*Cherry Hills rated 61st? A great example of a course that gets by because of its isolation in the Denver area. Throw the course into the stretch of territory between Phillie and the NY metro area and it gets simply swallowed up.

*Can someone explain to me what people see in Champions / Cypress Creek course?

On the kudos side:

*Fenway (long overdue recognition)
*Lehigh (although I still believe the course suffers for a few long par-4's)
*Westchester CC (course gets little serious attention depite hosting a tour event)
*Lawsonia / Links (wonderful and often underrated and underappreciated Langford & Moreau design)

More to follow ...

[Brad Tufts]

redanman,

     Where did you get the composite list of 100 best classical courses?  Could you provide me a link or e-mail me a copy if you made it?

The cut and paste version is a little unclear, and i'm trying to put together a clear list for reference.

Thanks,

Brad