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Lloyd_Cole

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:GANTON - What did we miss?
« Reply #25 on: February 08, 2007, 08:49:58 PM »
If I could play Walton Heath and Ganton alternately, every other weekend, I'd be in heaven.

wsmorrison

Re:GANTON - What did we miss?
« Reply #26 on: February 08, 2007, 08:53:23 PM »
"I am in agreement with Dickinson.  This brings me back to my original questions: Can a course be greater than the sum of its parts?  If so, can said course be a great course without any great holes?"

Sean,

Jim Finegan sure thinks so.  He feels that way about his beloved Philadelphia Country Club...a course he's played more than 10,000 times!

Mark_Rowlinson

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:GANTON - What did we miss?
« Reply #27 on: February 11, 2007, 07:38:08 AM »
There's no pond on 9.  The only pond is between the 5th green and the 6th tee.

Darren_Kilfara

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:GANTON - What did we miss?
« Reply #28 on: February 11, 2007, 08:13:34 AM »
I still don't get Woodhall Spa, personally. It's a one-trick pony of a golf course - world-class bunkers, good but hardly great everything else. Ganton and Walton Heath do a lot more for me...

Cheers,
Darren

RT

Re:GANTON - What did we miss?
« Reply #29 on: February 11, 2007, 08:25:30 AM »
Woodhall Spa would do itself good with a bit of a tree clearout and underbrushing on some holes to allow the heather, if possible, to develop further.

I am seeing this type of operation going on at some great Surrey and Berkshire Co. heathland courses and it just is so wonderful the results to date, with the anticipation of heather regenerating with some interesting mulching techniques being incorporated.
« Last Edit: February 11, 2007, 08:26:24 AM by RT »

Mark_F

Re:GANTON - What did we miss?
« Reply #30 on: February 12, 2007, 02:40:32 AM »
I still don't get Woodhall Spa, personally. It's a one-trick pony of a golf course - world-class bunkers, good but hardly great everything else. Ganton and Walton Heath do a lot more for me...
Cheers,
Darren

That's a pretty accurate assessment.

The short fours toward the end are kind of neat, but, in fitting with the above comment, nothing too special, especially in regard to those in Melbourne.

West Sussex is better - and prettier - than either, though.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:GANTON - What did we miss?
« Reply #31 on: July 03, 2007, 08:20:20 AM »
Heres an old thread that is interesting.  I find it fascinating that Paul groups Ganton with Woodhall and Walton Heath.  I can certainly understand his reluctance to call the courses three of the best in the world.  While I like all three, I am doubtful they are top 100 good, but I don't have enough experience of world wide golf to say either way with confidence.  

A few on this site have stated that great courses are defined by great holes.  This is essentially Paul's argument against Ganton and presumably the other two courses.  However, is it fair to say that great courses are defined by great holes?  Can a course be better than the sum of its parts and therfore possibly great?

Ciao
Doesn't Ganton have some great holes?  For my part I think 14 has a shout as a great short par 4 and I suspect I'd think 15 was a great hole if it didn't beat me up so severely every time I play it.  I also think 16 (even if the cross bunker isn't in the right place anymore) has a shout.

I think Ganton has a great routing, some of the best bunkering inland in the UK and, really importantly, has great rhythm.

Pleased to see that in the "Great sub-400 yard Holes" thread no less an authority than Tom Doak has listed the 14th in a list of great short par 4s.  

It's such a shame you now can't make BUDA this year, this is a discussion that would have really benefited from being "on site".
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mark Bourgeois

Re:GANTON - What did we miss?
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2007, 05:55:28 PM »
I disagree Ganton has no great holes -- I'd put 3,4,7, and 14 in with my favorites.  John's word "subtlety" however may point to why these holes do not scream at the golfer.

For example, 7 has a clutch of bunkers on the inside of the dogleg which capture the golfer's attention -- but as much as anything else those bunkers serve to distract the golfer from the real issue: the bunker (and gorse) on the far side of the dogleg.  And in a wind, you really do want to be in the proper position for approaching the green; there's a false front and the green falls away, the standard assortment of Ganton bunkers, and so you must really plan out the play of the hole.  You might put failures down to those of execution, when the proper classification might be to the design of the hole.

For my money I think it is a fantastic test of decision-making, planning, and driving the ball.  It's not a difficult walk, the wind will attack you from the four corners, and as for the "rhythm," I found it in all those decisions I had to make.  It's not only you don't face the same shot off the tee from one hole to the next, it's how different those shots are.

For example, 1 tee = hit to left center in a left-to-right wind and hard as it's uphill; 2 tee = hit just over the inside of the gentle dogleg left but not too hard as it runs downhill and if you go out to the right you'll run out of room but if you stray left you've got gorse / rough problems; 3 tee = potential meltdown of brain's executive function.

Doesn't all this indicate an excellence of routing?

For me, this one's the Jane Austen or John Cheever of golf courses: there's a lot going on, if you'll only pay attention...

Mark
« Last Edit: October 16, 2007, 05:58:00 PM by Mark Bourgeois »

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