[Jeff_Stettner]

This is going to be a short post as I am currently paying way too much to be online, but I had to express a few thoughts about Mike Devries' Kingsley Club.
It's really, really good. Sinuous bunkers splashed into fescue draped hills make for the closest thing to a heathland course I've seen in the states. The wide-open front nine has incredible vistas, on the number three tee you can watch at least three groups struggle on the wildly contoured greens. The back nine meanwhile, weaves in and out of some marvelous forest, and while the look is different from the front the feel of the holes remains very much the same. The routing is absolutely top-notch, a pleasant walk that includes a great starting hole (600 yards, fairway split by a massive bunker complex), the toughest par 4 I've ever played (number 15), a nice redan (16) and 14 other great holes. I say 14 because I am not sure I like number 9, a short par 3 with a green that looked good at first but played slightly over-the-top.
I also had the pleasure of Mr. Devries company on a pre-round tour of the facility before my round. His approach to design is commendable, and golfers in Northern Michigan are going to have to pull themselves away from Crystal Downs to see a real gem.  

[Aaron]

I just looked at their website,and that course is looking very nice.

My question, Jeff, is how the bunkers look now as the finished product. In the pics, I assume the course was still under construction, but those bunkers looked like they shouldn't be touched. They had that ungroomed, natural look to them. But I assume they were waiting to be cleaned up. PLease tell me I'm wrong!

Aaron

[Jeff_Stettner]

Aaron:
Fortunately you are wrong, Aaron. The bunkers are wild and rugged, often framed by thick fescue. The entire course had only 30,000 cubic feet of dirt moved. Just as rugged as the bunkers are the fairway rolls. Wild, I tell you. Wild. Pretty cool, eh?

[Jim Reilly]

Jeff,

I saw, and played the front 9 of, the Kingsley club last autumn.  I'm interested on how you played the 17th (i.e. did you reach the hill, and if so, what was the result (did you get 75 extra yards, was the grass on the hill long so it held up, etc.).  Also, I had my doubts about the 15th; no question that it would be difficult, but whether it was a great test at a critical part of a round or over the top.  The way I see it, if it's a par 4.5 it's a great hole; if it's a par 5 marked as a par 4, well, then it's probably too much.  

How did you play the 13th?  What did you think of the green?  What kind of speeds were the greens running?

Thanks for the info.

Regards,

Jim

[Aaron]

Jeff,
That is great! But in the bunker, is it just pure sand or are there weeds growing in the actual sand?

I have to say that the course looks amazing, but how does it actually play jeff? Strategic and interesting?

[Mike_DeVries]

Jeff,

So glad you came out this last weekend and that you enjoyed the course and I welcome your critique of the course.  Your concerns about the ninth are relevant and I would say it is my "least favorite" green on the course, but the hole is still great fun to play and offers wonderful variety with the optional teeing areas giving it 2 completely different looks.  And so far, most of the people playing it love it, so I think it is fine -- maybe that controversy means it is better than I think?

Jim, the 15th is proving to be difficult, as I thought, but many players are getting to the green and even the owners joke to Fred Muller and me about "that hole we think is so hard" by telling us they made 4 (on his first play) and the other making birdie (and they are steady players but not great).  Sure, it is a long iron or wood in, but with a really good drive, a mid-iron approach is readily achieved.  If you don't hit the green (just look at the great par fours where that is the norm), then a good up-and-down will get you your par.  So, I would say it is playing to that 4.5 at this time.  The greens are running true and playing great -- not sure of the speed, as I don't think Dan has a Stimpmeter, but they allow for some aggression and still you have to be careful, but not scared -- Dan has them playing very, very well.

I would love to hear from some of the other contributors to GCA who played the course last week, but have not commented.  Do you agree with Jeff's, Jim's, or my comments/assessments?

To everyone else, please come play Kingsley and judge it for yourself.

Mike

[Tim_Weiman]

Mike,

Ever since our tour last fall, I've been looking forward to getting back to Kingsley.

Happy to hear the course is open for play and hope it won't be too long before I get to play over and around those wonderful bunkers.

Congratulations for a first class effort.

[Jeff_Stettner]

Jim:
15 was absolutely brutal. I was one under on the back nine (from the blues) until I made triple on what I now believe is a par 6. Seriously though, I actually think it played longer and tougher than both 14 and 17, two par fives that I was able to get within ten yards of the green of in two.
17 was fun, even if it was pouring at the time. My drive stopped right at the edge of the drop, so I couldn't get the monster roll.
13 was the only non par five I birdied, despite the elephant buried in the green. It played well, four-wood/lob wedge. It's a crazy green, but it works.
Mike:
Again, thanks. It was an absolute pleasure to have your company. My issue with nine was actually not the way the green putted, but rather the way it held shots. I tried hard wedges and punch nines and couldn't get either to settle anywhere near the middle tier. Of course it was downwind, adding to the difficulty.

[Jeff_Stettner]

A couple more notes. The greens were about nine, a good speed for their contour.
Aaron:
The course was both fun and thought-provoking. There are many ways to play each hole, the better routes often less obvious. The one element that really seperates Kingsley, in my opinion, is the fairway rolls. I can't think of a course in the states that moves like Kingsley; bold and often wicked but always appreciated.  

[RJ_Daley]

Jeff, a point of some good natured ribbing with Mike D., was my initial impression of the tee shot on 18.  Since it was still in a grow-in phase when we were there last Sept., I really didn't get a fair shot to assess it with some attempted drives.  I thought the high right side LZ may be a little too small in area to hold anything up above the steep gully along down left side.  How did this play.  Is there a localized spot where the vast majority of tee shots on 18 gather into a small area on down left side causing unwanted turf stress in one small area?  If Mike D's assurances that the slope would not be a problem and would provide all the more intrigue and excitement, then it may be one of the greatest design features on the course IMHO.  I think if he brings the design off as conceived he has designed-built that one to the finest edge of GCA talent and daring.  I really want to get back there and give the course multiple tries.  It should easily be considered one of the best new courses in what appears to be shaping up as a very competitive year of new courses coming on-line.

[Mike_DeVries]

Jeff,

Was it blowing pretty hard from the North in the afternoon?  The dominant winds here are S-SW 50-55% of the time (with #15 and #17), N-NW 30% of the time (with #14), 15% straight W, and small % that is irregular and from the E (means a front is turning over and can be bad weather!).  And it can blow hard from any direction.  That may have effected the feeling on #15.

In regards to #9, I have been in some bad spots there, for sure, but have found the putting surface by holding shots and  banking shots off the left.  Now I don't think I have been able to hold, or even tried to hold, the middle tier because of its difficulty and potential for bad error.  But I will defend that as an element of course strategy for one to play safe with the hope that a ball would hit the face of the tier and pop up and stop there, but knowing that it could mean scoring 4 at the best with an error; but a safe play to the green could be a two with a good putt (that is uphill to the tier and can be fairly aggressive due to the backstop from the South lobe).

BTW, what did you shoot?  Not to get wrapped up in scoring (I think you can score fairly well at Kingsley, but have the potential to make a big number somewhere along the way ala the 15th for you), but 1-under until #15 is pretty good play.  What about the front?

RJ, #18 had some turf stress due to the long winter, but it is doing fine and we are not experiencing the ball getting to the same place at this time, although the grass is not as shaved as it will be in time.  The area is so wide and the contours are so big that I think it will be fine.  Hope you get back soon.

[Craig Van Egmond]

Here is an example of what RJ considers good natured ribbing on #18 at dinner that night.

Mike D:  Do you guys have any comments or questions about what you saw today?

Silence

RJ: Ok, I'll start, "What the hell were you thinking on 18?"

[Tim_Weiman]

Craig:

That remark from Dick was classic.  

He is so shy...........

[Mike_DeVries]

Hey, I thought those Cheeseheads could hold their beer better than that?!?

We are all open for critiquing and "I gots to know", as the robber in The Enforcer says to Clint with blood pouring out of his leg and thinking that if he didn't have any bullets left, he could get the shotgun and take down Harry Callahan and be a hero, but chickens out and then demands "to know" if Clint had any bullets left . . . . . click!  (Don't have any idea why that popped into my head, but what a classic moment!)

[Craig Van Egmond]

Mike,
     The look on your face when he said that was priceless, I think the rest of us had to pick our jaws off the table.

There were quite a few good remarks that evening, one of them being "Sounds like a talent problem to me"

[Mike_DeVries]

Yeah, that was a beauty!

So, what did my face look like, since I didn't have a mirror?

[RJ_Daley]

Mike, same movie I think... "a man just gots to know his limitations".  My  limit was the beer just before I asked you that    

[Jeff_Stettner]

RJ:
I wish I could answer your question about 18 better, but I can't. I pulled my drive left and ended up at the bottom of said hill in the rough. I was able to put it in the right front bunker from there, however, and saved par. Left wasn't death. The fairway did look a little tough to hold, but I watched two groups play there, and all of the players hit balls that were short of the real steep downslope, avoiding the problem. It just might have to be a layup for the long hitter.
Mike:
Nine was downwind (I don't know what direction is what) from the left tee (from the perspective of eight green). I'll reiterate, the green putted well, but I also found that chipping from above the hole was also really hard, maybe too much so. My biggest concern is the depth of the middle tier. I wonder if Phil Mickleson has the spin to keep the ball up there. I will add that the contouring does allow a golfer to putt successfully across all the tiers, which I've found to be rare in a boomerang green.
I shot 80, mostly due to a double on nine and the triple on 15. It's very fair, Mike, strong enough to challenge but hardly overwhelming. I think members will enjoying playing Kingsley over and over.

[Mike_DeVries]

Jeff,

"It's very fair, Mike, strong enough to challenge but hardly overwhelming. I think members will enjoy playing Kingsley over and over."  

Thank you for the fine compliment -- if the members can never quite saturate their appreciation of some aspect of the course, whether it is because of a change in weather, temperature, consistency in their game, etc., then I will be very pleased and will have achieved success on one level that I was trying to.

Thanks again for coming out.

[John_McMillan]

I had a chance to play Kingsley a couple weeks ago.  Thanks Mike, for the invitation, which was made extra special (like a cherry on top of a chocolate Sunday?) by the opportunity to join the Renaissance golf boys on their tour of Kingsley.  I'll stand by the thought I expressed last summer - that if you sent 18 golfers out to play the course, they'd all come back with the same comment - "it's a great course except for one hole" - but they'd all name a different hole.  

My new impressions are -

I still think some of the slopes in the fairways in the front nine are too severe - but I also allow the possibility that I'm not smart enough to know from the 4 times I've walked and played the course what works and what won't.

The green on the 9'th is one of the most unusual I've seen.  From the left tee, there are completely different pin placements - on the left of the green is a very easy one with Johnny Miller-backboards to the left and back, while the pin placement on the right requires a heroic carry over deep bunkers short and right.  I'm not sure I can name another "Jeckyll and Hyde" which tops this one for ease/severity depending on the pin.

The 16'th (par-3 styled Redan) plays even better than I thought it would, the 17'th (a par-5 across a 50-foot bowl) "doesn't speak to me."  

Thanks again for the chances to visit the course while under construction, and to come back and play the completed version.

[Todd_Eckenrode]

I had the chance to play with "Dead-weight Devries" at Tom Doaks gathering at PD.  What an experience!  We would have taken the prize had we not all basically double bogeyed the first and last holes, for which I take all the blame.  They must be unfair holes!

Am really looking forward to seeing Kingsley, as I witnessed a nice slideshow of it in "grow-in" stage, and it looked absolutely fantastic.  Any more recent pics to post than I saw then?

[Mike_DeVries]

Todd,

I am working on getting some new photos up and will post them when available.  Come on out to the Midwest while it's hot -- I know your California blood won't take the late fall weather!

[Mike_DeVries]

John,

Glad you came out and I look forward to hearing any more comments you and the Renaissance crew may have.

[Matt_Ward]

Mike DeVries:

Had the pleasure in playing Kingsley late in the day (July 5) and absolutely loved the course. The front nine is one of the best routing designs I have seen among recent new courses.

The green contours are superb and clearly first rate. The bunkers looked like they had been there forever and the blowing high fescue rough is a great conrtast to the cropped grass cuts. I also enjoyed the firm and fast conditions presented by fescue fairways. I only wish Arcadia Bluffs had seen fit to use fescue fairways!

I know some people don't like the 9th, but I found it be a real treat in terms of short iron control -- hell you are only hitting a wedge or 9-iron. The 15th is also a superb long par-4. For all the whiners who complain about length I say too bad. Suck it up and get on with the game.

I would recommend designers to visit Kingsley to see how classic design can be achieved. I look forward to returning in the near future and see how things are proceeding. Hats off to Brad for my warm welcome and to Bob.

Congratulations on a magnificient job.

[Darryl_Cluster]

As a long-term lurker, I had the good fortune to discover the Kingsley Club on this site several months ago.  As others have noted, the Club’s website suggests that the course is something special.  Based on that input, I added Northern Michigan to a Midwest itinerary that already included Chicago and Wisconsin (By the way, thank you Dick Daley for steering me to Lawsonia).  Having recently had the great good fortune to play the completed course with Mike DeVries, I can confirm that Kingsley more than lives up to its promise.

First, Kingsley sits on a great piece of property.  The contrast between the front nine and the back nine is reminiscent of High Pointe, with the outward half rolling and twisting through open terrain and the holes on the inward side often defined and segregated by trees.  However, I found that the predominantly natural contours of Kingley’s first nine offered far more interest than their counterparts at High Pointe.  And, more impressively, the terrain of the back nine holds its own with that at High Pointe.

Moreover, as Jeff pointed out, the routing takes full advantage of the site, particularly, I thought, through the opening 7 holes.  The tees and greens offer some magnificent views.  The pacing of the layout allows one to build up to and recover from “highlight” holes without losing momentum.  Mike has successfully incorporated elements from his beloved Crystal Downs and from some of the great links of Scotland (Dornoch and North Berwick come immediately to mind) in the context of a course that is all his own.  Most of the holes readily offer more than one “best” play to get to the green and the green sites, several of which are quite generous in size and dramatic in contour, present a variety of challenges from subtle to wild.  And, yes, the bunkers are something special, both in placement and presentation.

Hats off, also, to superintendent Dan Lucas who has the course playing fast, hard and beyond its years.  I mentioned to Mike that I had played at the Straits course at Whistling Straits two days before and that I thought the condition of the fairways at Kingsley compared quite favorably to those at the Straits.

As far as individual holes, #1, #3, #5, #6, #13, #15, #16(!) and #17 stood out for me.  As noted earlier in this thread, #16 is a Redan which incorporates elements of Thomas’ 4th (pre-kikuyu) at Riviera.  (If that doesn’t get you to Kingsley, I don’t know what will.)  I’d include the par-5 14th as well but I can’t get over the fact that Mike reached it in two with his recently acquired Orlimar Strong 3.

I could go on but I think the message on this thread is pretty clear.  I heartily encourage all of you to take Mike up on his offer to come out and play Kingsley. The folks there (including Bob and Brad) are as friendly and accommodating as can be.

Finally, I want to thank Mike for taking the time to play and walk 36 with me on an unreasonably hot and humid (did I mention that I was from Los Angeles?) day.  (Sorry you missed your PB at CD in the morning - who designed those Par-3s anyway?)  It is a memory I will treasure for a lifetime - though, I hope to be back at Kingsley on a regular basis.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()