[Matt_Ward]

I am posting the early word on the top American courses listed by Golf Magazine's 2001 rankings. More to follow . . .

1). Pine Valley
2). Cypress Point
3). Pebble Beach
4). Augusta National
5). Shinnecock Hills
6). Pinehurst #2
7). Sand Hills
. Merion
9). Oakmont
10). Seminole
11). Winged Foot / West
12). San Francisco GC
13). Prairie Dunes
14). National Golf Links of America
15). Crystal Downs
16). Oakland Hills / South
17). Fisher's Island
18). Chicago GC
19). Olympic / Lake
20). The Country Club / Open
21). Oak Hill / East
22). Baltusrol / Lower
23). Muirfield Village
24). Riviera
25). Southern Hills
26). The Golf Club
27). Whistling Straits / Straits
28). Camargo
29). Medinah / #3
30). TPC / Sawgrass
31). Garden City GC
32). Winged Foot / East
33). LA / North
34). Quaker Ridge
35). Inverness
36). Maidstone
37). Shadow Creek
38). Bandon Dunes
39). Spyglass Hill
40). Harbour Town
41). World Woods / Pine Barrens
42). Ocean Forest
43). Somerset Hills
44). Honors Club
45). Cascades / Upper
46). Peachtree
47). Wade Hampton
48). East Lake
49). Nantucket
50). Congressional / Blue
51). Valley Club of Montecito
52). Double Eagle
53). Colonial
54). Baltimore / Five Farms
55). Black Diamond

The only post 1960 American courses listed in the top 55 are:

Sand Hills
Muirfield Village
The Golf Club
Whistling Straits
TPC Sawgrass
Shadow Creek
Bandon Dunes
Spyglass Hill
Harbour Town
World Woods / Pine Barrens
Ocean Forest
Honors Club
Nantucket
Double Eagle
Black Diamond

[Tommy_Naccarato]

The first 25 look like a pretty solid list to me.

It's been a long time since I ragged on Tom Fazio, so as a way to keep the Fiz-heads in the Fazio Scottsdale office on their toes.....

I would like everyone to notice that there isn't a single Fazio original in that Top 25, although he is currently remodeling or has remodeled six of them. Add the possiblility of him screwing with Oakmont and it is seven.

That is what I call be well received in the market place!

Now looking further at the list.......

Where is the Master's work at Bel Air?

Congratulations to Golf Magazine for compiling what seems to be a very well thought out list of Classic and Modern combined.

[TEPaul]

Looks like a really good list. Architecturally I would take NGLA and Crystal Downs and put them in the top ten and drop ANGC and Pebble down some. ANGC and Pebble have the big tournaments but the big tournmanent isn't archtecture---is it?

[Paul Richards]

Did Golf Magazine change its format for this
year?

In the past, didn't they do the 100
Greatest Courses in the World?  And then,
just added some to do the Greatest in America?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt Ward,

Does it surprise you that Somerset it ranked and Plainfield isn't mentioned.

It's been my limited experience, in New Jersey for the past FORTY years that almost universally, Plainfield has been ranked higher than Somerset, and many say it should be ranked higher than Baltusrol.  I'm not going to get into that debate in this thread.

My point is, a substantial body of golfers, for over forty years, has consistently ranked Plainfield ahead of Somerset, yet in the new rankings you posted, Plainfield doesn't even appear, does that tell you anything about the familiartiy of the rankers with the two courses.

Second Question, do you see the need to balance the list geographically as an impediment to credibility ?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Matt Ward,

Sorry to have to make another post, but how can anyone rank a phantom golf course

The Country Club course (open) is so convoluted that it is rarely, if ever played, outside the Open.

When you change the 2nd hole from a 4 to 3,
eliminate 9 & 10, use 11, eliminate 12 use 13, switch to another nine and combine # 1 on that nine, a par 4, with # 2 a par 3, to make a long par 4, then play #3 of that nine, a par 5, as a par 4, then play another hole from that nine before heading back up the original 18 hole course vis-a-vis # 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, how can that possibly be considered a golf course.

Now I like all three nines at The Country Club.  I love the history and aura of the place, but how on earth can anyone claim this gerrymandered piece of real estate to be an actual golf course, other than once in a decade or two.

It's artificial and should be disqualified, or ranked on the merits of the 18 contiguously designed holes.

But, that's just my opinion.

[John Morrissett]

Matt--

Thanks for the sneak peak -- do you have anything else you could share with us?  (Or has George Peper already seized your computer?)

Pat--

I'm fairly certain that GOLF has always (12+ years) put Somerset Hills ahead of Plainfield -- this is not new for 2001.  I'm too lazy to go search through back issues, but I think Somerset has always been in GOLF's World Top 100 while Plainfield has been included in the World Top 100 only once, perhaps twice.

Which do you prefer between the two?  I prefer Somerset, and by a good bit.

[Patrick_Mucci]

John,

For so many years Plainfield was set up, almost diabolical, if not penal by Red.
It is certainly the harder of the two courses, and I was never crazy with the 13,14,15 stretch.

There is a sereneness about Somerset and I think it falls in my sporty category.  I find the difference in the nines striking and I would have to say that day in and day out I would opt to play Somerset.  Now if they would just reverse the nines.

[John Morrissett]

Pat--

I agree with your assessment -- 13-15 at Plainfield won't win any prizes (neither will 5 and , and it is certainly the more difficult course.  

Somerset has what is probably my favorite set of greens anywhere -- what variety and interest.

Your comment about the different sides at Somerset reminds me of a story Ran had about PJ Boatwright.  In the mid 80s, when Ran worked for the USGA and lived one mile from Somerset Hills, he was going on a trip with Mr. Boatwright.  They were seated next to each other on the plane, and while waiting for the plane to take off, Ran attempted conversation by asking PJB, a member of Somerset, "How much better do you think the front nine is than the back nine at Somerset?"  The reply: "I don't."  And Ran was in for a long flight . . .

The back nine has grown on me some, esp. 17 and 18 as I used to think they were complete throwaways (they're not).  The 10th is my least favorite on the course.

In 1994 the club switched the nines for the year, with some claiming that was the original routing.   While 7-9 made for a more demanding, yet still varied, finish, the result was not overwhelming (although I did like starting on 10 rather than 1 and playing the Redan after you have warmed up some).

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