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Mike_Cirba

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #75 on: June 05, 2008, 10:31:44 PM »
A wonderful thread, if somewhat sobering to realize all the former GCA-ers who seem to have departed, or who rarely stop by.

More troubling is the sudden feeling I just had that my best GCA posts are far behind me.   

Too often these days, I feel like I'm simply regurgitating ideas and dogmas that I've said better 100 times in the past.

Perhaps that's why it's only the research-related threads, where we can actually unearth something new and unknown, that really catch my attention.  I feel like I've spent more time in the past than the present the past nine months.

Or, perhaps it's simply hiding, because when I look forward, I am concerned and sometimes mortified by what I see as the constricted future of golf.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 10:34:36 PM by MikeCirba »

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #76 on: June 06, 2008, 02:03:40 AM »
I get similar feelings Mike.  But, it is great to haul out the old Pizza Man thread every once in a while for the 'kids' recently joining GCA.com to read.  ;) ;D 

May all the posters on here have 10 year anniversaries to periodically weigh in on this old thread...  :D
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Sheehan

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #77 on: June 06, 2008, 04:27:47 AM »
Phil,
Thanks for reposting this.  Jeez, it's hard to believe the original was almost exactly seven years ago.  Like Mike Cirba noted, there are a lot of old familiar faces missing....

And it's still a great, heartwarming story.

Tom Huckaby

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #78 on: June 06, 2008, 10:02:55 AM »
The story remains heartwarming and the discussion provocative.

One update:  I did get Tom Paul's autograph - and Pat Mucci's - when I finally met them.  Look for those some day on Ebay.

 ;)

Matt Bosela

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #79 on: June 06, 2008, 10:30:55 AM »
Tremendous story.

Thank you very much for bumping this, as I never would have seen it otherwise.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #80 on: June 06, 2008, 12:14:41 PM »
As an "older" newbie, thats my first read of that and man thats good stuff.

I'm wondering if anyone ever followed up on the groupies??  GCA.com has been around for years and years now.  There has got to be some hot chicks somewhere just dying to meet some of the regulars.   ;)  ;D

Garland Bayley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #81 on: June 06, 2008, 12:27:50 PM »
...There has got to be some hot chicks somewhere just dying to meet some of the regulars.   ;)  ;D

Yeah, but the all keep asking for Jordan Wall, and do you know Jordan Wall, and what's Jordan Wall really like...
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #82 on: June 06, 2008, 12:33:46 PM »
I think Gib cornered the market on the only classy available one at the time, and Amy and Margaret already have their guys. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #83 on: June 06, 2008, 12:54:31 PM »
...There has got to be some hot chicks somewhere just dying to meet some of the regulars.   ;)  ;D

Yeah, but the all keep asking for Jordan Wall, and do you know Jordan Wall, and what's Jordan Wall really like...


Hey,

I met Jordan at the KP, and sure the chicks dig em.  But there has got to be plenty of groupies now to go around.  GCA.com is almost 10 yrs old now for petes sake.   ;)

Dan Kelly

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #84 on: June 06, 2008, 12:57:56 PM »
...  when I look forward, I am concerned and sometimes mortified by what I see as the constricted future of golf.

Elaborate, Mike?
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Peter Wagner

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #85 on: June 06, 2008, 01:12:28 PM »
New thread started dues to the importance of the question.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 01:23:04 PM by Peter Wagner »

Mike_Cirba

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #86 on: June 06, 2008, 01:45:31 PM »
...  when I look forward, I am concerned and sometimes mortified by what I see as the constricted future of golf.

Elaborate, Mike?

Dan,

I'd rather just throw out grand pronouncements at this time than try to form a cohesive, detailed argument.   8)  ;)   

After the recent Merion threads I'm burnt out from trying to type at any reasonable level of detailed coherence so i'll probably just throw out pithy, grandiose comments that may or may not make any logical sense for a few weeks.   Please bear with me.   ;)

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #87 on: June 06, 2008, 03:12:57 PM »
While carpooling recently with a fellow GCAer to a round of golf 50+ miles away, he commented that the negativity which pervades the news can turn mostly false perceptions into reality.  Though he was referring to the economy and the business environment in general, I think it also applies to what Mike Cirba, Geoff Shackelford, and others have noted on this site regarding the future of golf.

The concept of the self-fulfilling prophecy is well known.   A book by Bryan Caplan, "The Myth of the Rational Voter: Why Democracies Choose Bad Policies" (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=8262), provided me with some new insights.  He identifies four biases which lead to misunderstandings, with the pessimistic bias the one which might be relevant here.

Many of us focus on the high cost of playing golf in large metropolitan areas and upscale resorts, long rounds, and crowded conditions.  We then extrapolate from our own circumstances to the rest of golfdom and conclude that things are going to hell in a handbasket.

As Mr. Caplan shows in his book, we're not going down the tube.  By definition, no matter how much we prefer otherwise, things don't stand still.  Mostly for the better, our economy has changed continuously in the past and it will do so as well in the future.  Ditto for golf.  The courses most of us play today are far superior than those we played 30 years ago.

As long as individuals are largely allowed to make decisions for themselves, we have nothing to fear.  When the politicians start talking about the collective and have the power to coerce individual behavior accordingly, then we should be "mortified" about the future of golf and, for that matter, everything else.  Admitedly, fighting the pessimistic bias is not easy for me these days.

Mike_Cirba

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #88 on: June 06, 2008, 03:30:43 PM »
Lou,

You do realize you're tempting me to write something beyond two sentences where I actually have to engage my brain, don't you?   

Please don't goad me into another argument....like The Hulk, I got the clear sense recently that people here don't like me when I'm angry.  ;)  ;D

So, much like Rush Limbaugh, I'll go back to being the lovable, cute, little fuzzball. 

How many sentences was that?

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #89 on: June 06, 2008, 04:14:19 PM »
Mike Cirba,

Four.  And no, I am not trying to goad you into anything.

Merion notwithstanding, you have demonstrated over the years that you're amply blessed with likability.  Certainly you can risk just a little bit of it and regale us with something cerebral, maybe even provocative.  You lament the departure of substantive posters and the repetitive, dogmatic nature of current threads.   I too am tired of Tiger disses this, Jack's ego is responsible for that, the USGA doesn't have a clue, and this ain't political, but Bush/Shrub sucks, etc.

Reverse the trend and share your considered positions regarding the future of golf.  If you like, you can disregard the Huntley Convention on the use of emoticons to soften your message.  I am sure Rush will not mind.   

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #90 on: June 06, 2008, 07:25:13 PM »
Lou,

I am thankful for Geoff, who stands outside the golf media hyper-hype and writes what is really happening.  He is has long been a lone voice of reason among a bunch of pathetic cheerleaders.

You have been writing the same things about Geoff for around 8 years now, or more.   During that time almost all of what he said would happen has happened.   Yet you think everything is still peachy-keen?

Perhaps you need to rework your point and reconsider it. In my opinion, the false-optimism which pervades golf commentary has turned mostly false perceptions into your reality.

Same goes for your take on the rest, but I won't elaborate because it doesn't belong on this website.

Good Luck.

DM
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 07:37:53 PM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

TEPaul

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #91 on: June 06, 2008, 09:26:21 PM »
David Moriarty:

Your self-opinionatedness and arrogance is so transparent it's gotten laughable. The best that can be said or even hoped for with you is you may be on a relatively productive learning curve with golf and architecture at some point in your future. As for basic doomsdayists like GeoffShac, he most certainly does have some very interesting things to say about golf and golf architecture but golf and architecture has survived and even prospered through many, many such as him in the past and I'm quite sure both will in the future. It will take a lot more than concerns him or concerns you to do in golf and its future, and for those like you who apparently think otherwise, all I can say is they don't really see golf in a long-term big-picture context. Golf may be stagnate or in a slight downturn recently but that's probably not much more than a symptom of economic conditions that have in the past and probably always will affect a sport like golf to some extent or degree. Again, golf is a multi-faceted and passion-oriented sport that has and will shed pessimists like you without so much as a "by your leave".  ;)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2008, 09:47:34 PM by TEPaul »

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #92 on: June 06, 2008, 10:22:40 PM »
David M,

I can always use some good luck.  Thanks.

I too am thankful for Geoff whose books I own and enjoy.  Just because I don't agree with his views on where golf is headed and his approach to remedy the perceived ills, doesn't mean that I can't appreciate his talents and devotion to the game.

Eight years or more?  To the best of my knowledge, I started perusing this site in late 2001/early 2002.  I don't know when I first became aware of Geoff, though I do remember meeting Lynn at the first King Putter in April 2002.  I've met Geoff very briefly only once, at Lynn's golf course clubhouse in March 2004, and have written perhaps a handful of times referencing his long running battles with the USGA and other participants in the industry.  I have not been a persistent critic of Geoff's nor have I ever attacked his person.

As to the state of golf, yes, for the most part, I think it is in relatively good shape.  It may not be "peachy-keen", but perfection and cosmic balance are not among my expectations.  The world is a complex place.  People are imperfect.  And so is the big world of golf.

I am always willing to reconsider my positions.  Perhaps ignorance is bliss.  Fortunately, there is no shortage of self-assured possessors of the truth who are more than happy to point out my perceptual shortcomings and to set me straight.  Yes, I am even thankful for the kindness of these folks.

Good luck to you as well.

LTD

TEPaul

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #93 on: June 06, 2008, 11:24:16 PM »
Lou, that is a wonderful post and a classic example of how to suffer fools lightly on here!  ;)

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #94 on: June 07, 2008, 01:31:00 AM »
Through all of this...all the hugs and kisses, and all the resucitations...and now that beginnings of another bruhaha noone has actually wondered why in the world Ed Baker has dinner parties with his clothes off...


From the original post...

...I get dressed[/color] and drive down to the Pizza place.I ask to talk to the delivery man,he appears from the back room and says "Hi Mr. Baker,was there a problem with your order?"

TEPaul

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #95 on: June 07, 2008, 01:38:39 AM »
I love some of the humor of this place. It's a shame Moriarty doesn't get it.  I guess that's what happens to people who take themselves a seriously as he does!

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #96 on: June 07, 2008, 01:40:58 AM »
David Moriarty:

Your self-opinionatedness and arrogance is so transparent it's gotten laughable. The best that can be said or even hoped for with you is you may be on a relatively productive learning curve with golf and architecture at some point in your future. As for basic doomsdayists like GeoffShac, he most certainly does have some very interesting things to say about golf and golf architecture but golf and architecture has survived and even prospered through many, many such as him in the past and I'm quite sure both will in the future. It will take a lot more than concerns him or concerns you to do in golf and its future, and for those like you who apparently think otherwise, all I can say is they don't really see golf in a long-term big-picture context. Golf may be stagnate or in a slight downturn recently but that's probably not much more than a symptom of economic conditions that have in the past and probably always will affect a sport like golf to some extent or degree. Again, golf is a multi-faceted and passion-oriented sport that has and will shed pessimists like you without so much as a "by your leave".  ;)

2002 Bethpage Black, par 72, 7214 yards. 
2008 Torrey Pines South, par 71, 7643 yards. 

Yep. You are right.  No problem here.  Nothing to worry about in "a long-term big-picture context."

_________________________________

Lou,

We could all use a little luck.  Those single digit handicappers out at Torrey could have used some luck today.  With indexes of 2.2, 6.0, 6.2, 8.1 they shot 84, 98, 100, and 114.  But at least the round only took six hours. 

As for the 8 years comment, sorry, I thought you had been around here longer than me at least. I should have written:

You have been writing the same things about Geoff for around 6 years now, or more.  During that time almost all of what he said would happen has happened.  Yet you think everything is still "in relatively good shape? 

As for you not having been a consistent critic of Geoff, my recollection differs, but I am not going to argue about it.

I'd rather not sully this thread with this conversation and I hope we are done, but if you'd like to continue how about you respond on one of the Torrey threads. 

Anyway, Good Luck.

DM
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 01:44:47 AM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

TEPaul

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #97 on: June 07, 2008, 02:13:43 AM »
"2002 Bethpage Black, par 72, 7214 yards. 
2008 Torrey Pines South, par 71, 7643 yards. 

Yep. You are right.  No problem here.  Nothing to worry about in "a long-term big-picture context."



David Moriarty:

Just another typical dumb and hysterical comment on your part, particularly if you think that bespeaks the death-knell of golf and golf architecture. Clearly, you're the type that exemplifies the small-mindedness of those who fixate on such things as the relative degrees of the quality of toilet paper!  But I guess even the relative degrees of the quality of toilet paper have some interest to some people, and frankly you make them a very good spokesman!  :)

DMoriarty

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #98 on: June 07, 2008, 02:15:40 AM »
"2002 Bethpage Black, par 72, 7214 yards. 
2008 Torrey Pines South, par 71, 7643 yards. 

Yep. You are right.  No problem here.  Nothing to worry about in "a long-term big-picture context."



David Moriarty:

Just another typical dumb and hysterical comment on your part, particularly if you think that bespeaks the death-knell of golf and golf architecture. Clearly, you're the type that exemplifies the small-mindedness of those who fixate on such things as the relative degrees of the quality of toilet paper!  But I guess even the relative degrees of the quality of toilet paper have some interest to some people, and frankly you make them a very good spokesman!  :)

;) m, 

You are in rare form.   A bit too much to drink perhaps?   Surely you don't behave like this sober?
« Last Edit: June 07, 2008, 02:18:21 AM by DMoriarty »
Golf history can be quite interesting if you just let your favorite legends go and allow the truth to take you where it will.
--Tom MacWood (1958-2012)

TEPaul

Re: GCA and the Pizza Man! The Silent Majority?
« Reply #99 on: June 07, 2008, 02:39:34 AM »
Nope, nothing to drink tonight----those posts of mine are nothing much more than how I normally feel about the things you say on here.

Do you think the fact you're a clueless out-of-work lawyer/"house-husband" has anything to do with most of the things you say on here like that last post of yours?  ;)