[Ed_Baker]

We have discussed in many threads the ridiculous expectations of todays golfers regarding "verdant green" treeline to treeline,and the negative effects it has on courses and budgets.

I now have a new pet peeve that is a spinoff of the Augusta Syndrome... CONSISTENCY!!!

The new buzzword for our membership is consistency. "The greens are o.k. but they are inconsistent, 5 and 8 are fast,6 and 7 are slow.""The rough in the valley on 16 is too dense,but it's too thin on 7,there's no consistency!"

Geezus #$&**$@ Christmas,how can people that are as successful as they are in their chosen fields of endeavor be that ignorant?

What ever happened to "rub of the green","play the ball as it lies",hit it and find it,and hit it again.Is every golf course supposed to provide perfect lies anywhere on the property,CONSISTENTLY? What do these people want,virtual golf? Should we install a giant bubble over the entire golf course with climate control? Is that where our game is headed? Golf in a terrarium?

Consistency,the new C word for golf.

[Matt_Ward]

Ed: Good stuff!!!

The problem with the people you mentioned is that they have been playing all their golf at the high end daily fees or private golf. They need to come out of the clouds and understand that perfect conditions are not always possible or even desirable. Constant adjustments are the traits of a good player. You would think these successful people would understand that since it's a necessary feature in today's business climate.

Ed, you confuse success in other fields with knowledge in golf. Many of the type of person you are describing don't really have a clue about what really golf is about. They are just doing it because it is the "in" game to play and presents endless social / networking opportunities.

You are absolutely right that playing the ball down and taking the breaks (good or bad) as they come is how you really learn about golf and your ability as a player.

The green is golden philosophy rests with these type of people. Playing on firm and fast surfaces that are brown and knowing that good and bad bounces are part of the game is beyond their understanding.

[ted janeczek]

i truly yearn for the good ole days, when you had hot summer weather like we have in the northeast right now and there was limited irrigation. firm fairways and playing along the ground with many alternatives. most people don't really know what the game of golf really is today. consistently challenging was what it was, not just a greenery contest.

[Willie_Dow]

Ed
Consistent bunker sand is now my abhorrence!
As you have pointed out the golfer today has been super saturated by TV, and cannot understand what it is to manufacture a shot, and applaud or relish the result.

[M.W._Burrows]

Hey Ed,
Bring your buddy over to Myopia this Monday and we'll give you some brown, firm, fast, and ridiculously inconsistent lies!  Let me know.

Matthew

[Dan Herrmann]

I found this old thread and found its topic quite interesting.  How do you handle the 'consistency' demands from members?

I find it laughable that members complain that bunker A has more sand than bunker B - and that they should all be the same.  It's called a hazard...

Rough is the same.  People expect in a period of little/no rain (and no irrigation) to have consistiently green, 2.25 inch rough.

Is this solely an American thing, or does it afflict our friends from around the globe too?

[Wayne_Kozun]

I find it laughable that members complain that bunker A has more sand than bunker B - and that they should all be the same.  It's called a hazard...

What about a course where some bunkers have lots of sand and others have about 0.5" causing you to skull your explosion shots?  Sure they are hazards, but they should be reasonable hazards.

[Jeff_Mingay]

Wayne,

Part of the reason a golfer grinds his feet into the sand is to test the lie... in other words, to determine how much sand is in the bunker. That, in turn, determines the type of shot that needs to be played.

Good golfers rarely complain about bunker conditions. They simply test the lie and play the required shot. On the other hand, guys who suck in the sand always complain that there's too much, or too little sand in the bunker.

It's laughable, really.

My home club is in the process of doing some course restoration work. Six holes will be worked on this fall, six holes next spring, then the remaining six in fall 2006. A Board member expressed concern that the bunkers done this year won't be consistent with the bunkers completed 12 months from now! Oh no!

The only reasonable response to such a comment is, bunkers are hazards. Don't hit your ball there.

Inconsistency is a major factor contributing to the SPORTING nature of golf, as it's meant to be played.    

[Wayne_Kozun]

Wayne,

Part of the reason a golfer grinds his feet into the sand is to test the lie... in other words, to determine how much sand is in the bunker. That, in turn, determines the type of shot that needs to be played.

I realize that but it is, technically, a violation of the rules to test the sand.  But it is not unusual to have differing depths within the same bunker so there can be lots of sand where you feet are but much less sand where the ball is.

[Patrick_Mucci]

I think consistency in the playing surfaces, fairways and greens is important.

Those of you who disagree obviously aren't familiar with TEPaul's "maintainance meld", and the need for firm and fast conditions to exist universally, throughout the golf course.

Or, would you prefer that six greens be soaking wet, while another six are firm with soaking wet approaches, with the last six having firm greens and approaches.

Bunkers are another matter.
As long as the rules permit taking your stance, you can determine the consistency of the sand.

Consistency is good.

You just can't be perfectionists about it.

[wsmorrison]

Tom Paul has previously pointed out one instance where there might need to be an avoidance of universal conditions on a golf course.  

If a course has a mixture of ground and aerial approaches where firm and fast is ideal, there may be a hole or two where only an aerial shot is allowed.  Take for instance Shinnecock Hills GC.  There are a number of holes that allow the run-up shot, particularly the longer holes.  But the 15th hole demands an aerial approach.  Now at 408 yards, the hole is now longer considered long by top players yet despite the elevated tee.  Yet it does play long for a large percentage of the membership.  If the course is maintained with very firm greens, some pin positions would be nearly impossible for aerial shots that will hit the green and bounce high off the firm surface.  

Now Flynn rarely required an aerial shot on a long approach and 15 is a marginal exception.  It is a fairly large green so that it will hold shots to the precise location at the front of the green under firmest conditions.   But what about other courses that have greens that demand an aerial approach with longer irons? How do you hold those greens under firm conditions?  I cannot think of any offhand.  But they surely exist.  Flynn courses that require aerial approaches are generally shorter approaches or approaches into the wind.  

The greens at Pine Valley that require long carries on the approaches seem sloped back to front enough that helps to retain balls on the green (3,7 and 18 has size and slope).

[TEPaul]

"How do you handle the 'consistency' demands from members?"

DanH:

We are finding what you do is quite simple really. What you do is make a huge show of politely listening to all their complaints about inconsistency and unfairness. You may even want to hold a series of meetings on the subject, record a ton of discussion on the subject and then you do absolutely nothing about it!!

After a while they just learn to live with it and all is quiet on the Western Front again until some other unrelated and equally unimportant issue comes up and you resolve that in the very same manner.

If you continue to do this for a few years the chances are better than not that they'll stop complaining altogether.

Actually, there's an even more effective way to deal with these kinds of things. That is you actually go and ask a huge segment of the membership if there's anything they want to complain about. After they tell you all their complaints you hold a series of meetings on the complaints, you record a ton of discussion on it (you can even show them this) and then you do absolutely nothing about it!!!

The point is they feel they're being listened to and frankly that's really all that matters. You never need to actually do what they ask you to, just listening to them politely pretty much solves all their problems and takes care of all their complaints.

In the unlikely event some of them actually ask you why you haven't addressed their complaints you just politely tell them that you most certainly have and you can't believe they haven't noticed.

[Dave_Miller]

We have discussed in many threads the ridiculous expectations of todays golfers regarding "verdant green" treeline to treeline,and the negative effects it has on courses and budgets.<P>I now have a new pet peeve that is a spinoff of the Augusta Syndrome... CONSISTENCY!!!<P>The new buzzword for our membership is consistency. "The greens are o.k. but they are inconsistent, 5 and 8 are fast,6 and 7 are slow.""The rough in the valley on 16 is too dense,but it's too thin on 7,there's no consistency!"<P>Geezus #$&**$@ Christmas,how can people that are as successful as they are in their chosen fields of endeavor be that ignorant?<P>What ever happened to "rub of the green","play the ball as it lies",hit it and find it,and hit it again.Is every golf course supposed to provide perfect lies anywhere on the property,CONSISTENTLY? What do these people want,virtual golf? Should we install a giant bubble over the entire golf course with climate control? Is that where our game is headed? Golf in a terrarium?<P>Consistency,the new C word for golf.<P>

Bakey IV:
My friend you forgot to add soft greens
My, My, My
Davey3

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

You've forgotten the first maxim of  membership conduct at golf and country clubs.

NO GOOD DEED SHALL GO UNPUNISHED.

[michael_j_fay]

We have had an awful summer in Connecticut this year for conditioning. There have been 23 days where the temperature got above 90 degrees and the burnout in the unwatered areas has been universal. At those clubs where the members insisted on firm and fast the greens were lost and the approaches suffered badly. The reaction of the membership, fire the Superintendent.

Those Clubs that allowed the Superintendent the latitude to manage the course with the skill that he has to deal with the conditions got through fairly well, but not without nagging complaints of slow greens.

Members should really be tutored about the realities of the conditions of the golf course when adverse weather conditions happen. Otherwise, the only two things a Superintendent can do to counteract overly hot weather is to turn on the water and update his resume!

[Craig Sweet]

Ah yes, consistancy.

I had a regular say to me last week that he really like the way the greens played during the Montana Open...he said he desired greens like that all year.

I asked him if he would pay double his fee for Open greens all summer long....that stopped him in his tracks.

It might be different at a high end private course, but at our muni, a very successful muni that makes money for the county, we have to operate with a limited budget and to achieve consistant, "high end course' conditions would take a lot more resources than we have.

Everything is a question of scale...I'm sure those Supers. back east that had the resources managed to do ok this summer, while those with limited resources took a big hit.

[Craig Sweet]

The other thing that I find laughable about consistancy is the golfers total lack of thought about the ground under their feet.

Our course is probably typical of most, and we have clay soils, rocky soil with rocks bigger than your head, rocky soil with gravel, sandy soils, you name it soils, sometimes all under the same fairway.  We have fairways with humps and hollows, lefties and righties....etc..etc....

And somehow the golfer expects consistancy?  

A golf course turf isn't quite like that hedge behind the house that you tediously manicure until it is dead on level...you try your best, but it isn't going to happen...

Of course, as I said in the previous post, if you have enough resources you can come closer to obtaining that consistancy.

[michael_j_fay]

Craig:

The laughable part of our problems in the Northeast had nothing to do with big budgets.

I won't name any courses but two in particular had budgets in excess of $1MM and lost their courses. We have the smallest budget in Hartford County of the private courses and have had eighteen greens in play all summer. Two of the local munis (Wintonbury and Rockledge) have survived quite well.

Unrealistic expectations are the culprit. If you want your course hard and fast in unusually hot weather you should be aware of the possibility of losing your putting surfaces.

It is like the jeering I get when I propose that a Club should cut down a bunch of trees because they cannot grow grass underneath them. My answer is: "Just what part of photosynthesis do you not understand?"

[Craig Sweet]

Wet and sloppy is not much better...water alone is not the answer to surviving drought and excessive heat....short term it might get you by, but long term...even through the entire season...you have to have certain cultural practices in place...

The second part of this equation, and this is what you are saying without saying it, the lower you mow, the finner your margin of error becomes...on greens, speed kills...in fairways, speed kills.

[A_Clay_Man]

I heard a real funy one on NPR the other day.

It was in regard to global warming.

"If you believe in the science"

Belive in science?

The science is either based on actual facts or it's mis-leading crap.

Ed Baker asked about these successful people. It's my experience that the Doctors and Lawyers of the world have been told for so long just how smart they are, that there is no convincing them otherwise on any subject.

Look at how Pebble Beach is being disfigured, is that smart?

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