[Matt_Ward]

I am enclosing a partial listing of the
top American courses as ranked by Golf Magazine for 2001. The results are clearly
interesting and should generate much debate. More to follow ...

1). Pine Valley
2). Cypress Point
3). Pebble Beach
4). Shinnecock Hills
5). Pinehurst #2
6). Sand Hills
7). Merion / East
. Oakmont
9). Seminole
10). Winged Foot / West
11). San Francisco GC
12). Prairie Dunes
13). National GL of America
14). Crystal Downs
15). Oakland Hills / South
16). Pacific Dunes
17). Fisher's Island
18). Chicago GC
19). Olympic / Lake
20). The Country Club / Open
21). Oak Hill / East
22). Baltusrol / Lower
23). Riviera
24). Southern Hills
25). Bethpage / Black
26). Whistling Straits / Straits
27). Camargo
28). Medinah #3
29). TPC at Sawgrass / Stadium
30). Garden City GC
31). Winged Foot / East
32). LACC / North
33). Quaker Ridge
34). Shoreacreas
35). Inverness
36). Maidstone
37). Shadow Creek
38). Bandon Dunes
39). Scioto
40). Spyglass Hill
41). Harbour Town
42). World Woods / Pine Barrens
43). Somerset Hills
44). The Honors Club
45). Cascades / Upper
46). Cherry Hills
47). Peachtree
48). Wade Hampton
49). East Lake
50). Nantucket
51). Congressional / Blue
52). Valley Club of Montecito
53). Double Eagle
54). Colonial
55). Baltimore / Five Farms
56). Black Diamond

Courses in the Top 50 that have opened since 1960 include the following:

Sand Hills
Pacific Dunes (just opened!!!)
Whistling Straits / Straits
TPC at Sawgrass / Stadium
Shadow Creek
Bandon Dunes
Spyglass Hill
Harbour Town
World Woods / Pine Barrens
Wade Hampton
Nantucket
Double Eagle
Black Diamond

[Ben C. Dewar]

Did Augusta make the list?

[Jake]

Isn't it interesting that Pacific Dunes is ranked #16 considering the course just opened a few weeks ago.  

I'm guessing that this article had to be written at least 2 months ago and panelists votes had to be in 4 to 6 months ago, I smell something fishy in Bandon?

[Gib_Papazian]

NGLA behind Oakmont? Please.

Here we go again with the ranking argument.

Jake,
Do yourself a favor and get on an airplane right now, fly to Portland, take Horizon Air to North Bend, call Shoe and go play both courses.

Bandon will blow you away.

You'll also discover that Pac Dunes might be rated too low. Waaay to low.

[Jake]

Mr. Papazian:

I have seen the photos of Pacific Dunes and do not underestimate the quality of the course.  It deserves a place on all of the lists but 3 weeks after it officially opened to the public?

My thoughts are how does a course with an official history of a few weeks make a list that was submitted for publication and printing months ago.  I question the voting process of Golf Magazine panelists, (how many have seen the course) and does the editor use liberal discretion on placing courses without a reasonable quorum.

Perhaps an investigation by Mr. Schakelford should take place?

[TEPaul]

I guess maybe I question the voting process of the Golf Mag panelists too, but not really since I have little idea what that process is.

Maybe the magazine wings it on certain courses, I don't know, but I will say that if they want to shortcut things and wing it with Pacific Dunes to make their publication deadline and they do that by sending around some photos of Pacific Dunes, that's fine by me!

I would certainly assume if the panelists  saw some photos of the course only it would have to rise on their list and winging it or not if the course rises I will guarantee they will not be wrong!

[Mike @ Kiawah]

Just as an FYI--  Panelists had to get their votes into Golf Magazine by the middle of last April...

[Patrick_Mucci]

TEPaul,

What a great IDEA.

For all those panelists who can't get around to see all the coures, up close and personal,
let's just have the magazine send them some random photos, and they can vote with the hdlp of the photos, and rank the golf courses accordingly.

Think of the travel expense it will save.

Think of the time and effort it will save.

JAKE,

I'm with you on this one.

Gib,

It may be, that upon seeing, playing and evaluating Pacific Dunes, it does live up to the expectations and raves you and others have commented on, but.....  

There is something disingenuous about the process in this case, and I don't think Jake is wrong to seriously question it.

Is something rotten in Denmark ?

[T_MacWood]

I'm sure it is only an innocent oversight, but is it possible Golf is trying to one up GD's PVGC contraversy by dropping ANGC dramatically? It is also odd that Muifield Village and The Golf Club are not included. I'm wondering if this list is legit.

On a side note I recall GD's explanation for Bethpage's fall was due to the remodeling and the diffficulty of getting raters out there in time. I wonder if ANGC, with there very limited season and annual changes, is exempt from that dilemma.

Are World Woods, Wade Hampton and Black Diamond better than Victoria National?

Are East Lake, Nantucket and Congressional better than Ocean Forest?

Are Whistling Straits, TPC and Harbour Town better than the Ocean Course?

Are Bandon Dunes and Double Eagle worthy of top 50 (or 56) consideration?

I've never understood the appeal of Medinah.

[Ben C. Dewar]

Tom I completely agree, on the last list
#4 ANGC
#18 MV
#27 The Golf Club

Something does not make sense.

Regards

[Paul Richards]

It seems my question never got answered
before.

Is Golf Magazine still going to release
"The 100 Greatest Courses in the World"
list?

[TEPaul]

Pat:

I've got a better idea. Ran Morrissett quits his job gets hired by Golf Mag to constantly travel the world playing and photographing golf courses and posting the photos on here for all the panelists (and the world) to see.

That is provided he takes a quick primer course in how to properly use a camera. Do you think it would be possible for them to keep him going to such an extent that eventually he might say; "Jeeesus, you're asking me to go back and play NGLA again for more photos--I was just there six months ago"?

[Matt_Ward]

In my original post on this topic I forgot to include the names of two courses that were ranked by Golf Magazine:

#4 Augusta National
Push back all courses from Shinnecock Hills one number lower through #23

#24 Muirfield Village
Push back all courses from Riviera through Black Diamond one number lower

Sorry for the omissions . . .

[Mike @ Kiawah]

Any word on The Ocean Course?

[T_MacWood]

The Golf Club?

[Matt_Ward]

Tom: Sorry for the second omission!

The Golf Club is ranked right behind Bethpage Black.

Again my regrets in leaving it off!

[Tom_Doak]

So, Matt, how come you get to know the results before those of us on the panel?

[T_MacWood]

Nantucket?

[John_D._Bernhardt]

Nice shot Tom, will you be at Bandon August 18th to the 22nd. John

[Matt_Ward]

Tom Doak:

Having good sources is always helpful!

I am providing the complete listing of Golf Magazine's Top 100 in the world for 2001.

Again, my apologies for the omissions previously stated.

In order to make things interesting I have deliberately left off a few courses (see below). You may choose to guess which ones they are and in which position. A couple of hints:

1). All are foreign courses.
2). No more than five (5) countries are involved in the remaining eight positions.
3). One country has three selections.
4). Keep in mind the eight remaining selections may already have courses chosen from their country.

Answers forthcoming next week . . .

P.S. -- The winner will be given a special pass to meet with Regis Philbin on "Who wants to be a Millionaire." Good Luck!!!

1). Pine Valley
2). Cypress Point
3). Pebble beach
4). Augusta National Golf Club
5). St. Andrews (Old Course)
6). Shinnecock Hills
7). Pinehurst #2
. Royal County Down
9). Muirfield
10). Royal Melbourne (Composite)
11). Ballybunion (Old)
12). Sand Hills
13). Merion (East)
14). Portrush
15). Royal Dornoch
16). Oakmont
17). Seminole
18). Turnberry (Ailsa)
19). Winged Foot (West)
20). SFGC
21). Prairie Dunes
22). Carnoustie (Championship)
23). NGLA
24). Crystal Downs
25). Oakland Hills (South)
26). Pacific Dunes
27). Royal St. George"s
28). Kingston Heath
29). Royal Birkdale
30). Fisher's Island
31). Chicago GC
32). Olympic (Lake)
33). The Country Club (Open)
34). Portmarnock
35). Casa de Campo (Teeth of the Dog)
36). Sunningdale (Old)
37). Oak Hill (East)
38). Baltusrol (Lower)
39). Muirfield Village
40). Royal Troon (Old)
41). Hirono
42). Riviera
43). Woodhall Spa
44). Southern Hills
45). Bethpage (Black)
46). Kingsbarrn
47). New South Wales
48). The Golf Club
49). Royal Lytham & St. Anne's
50). Whistling Straits (Straits)

51). Camargo
52). Loch Lomond
53). Medinah #3
54).
55). Cruden Bay
56). TPC of Sawgrass (Stadium)
57). Garden City GC
58).
59). Winged Foot (East)
60).
61). LACC (North)
62). Quaker Ridge
63). Shoreacreas
64). Inverness
65). Maidstone
66). Royal Liverpool
67). Lahinch
68). Shadow Creek
69). Highlands Links
70). Bandon Dunes
71).
72). Scioto
73).
74). Spyglass Hill
75). Harbour Town
76). World Woods (Pine Barrens)
77). Ocean Forest
78).
79). Somerset Hills
80).
81).
82). The Honors Club
83). Cascades (Upper)
84). Cherry Hills
85). Peachtree
86). Kasuaigaeski (East)
87). Valderamma
88). Wade Hampton
89). Durban
90). East Lake
91). Nantucket
92). Congressional (Blue)
93). Cabo del Sol
94). Valley Club of Montecito
95). Paraparaumu Beach
96). St. George's (Canada)
97). Double Eagle
98). Colonial
99). Baltimore (Five Farms East)
100). Black Diamond

[Mike @ Kiawah]

You mean to tell us that The Ocean Course at Kiawah has dropped off the list after it had moved up consistently each of the previous years it was on it?  That's tough to swallow...

[Matt_Ward]

Mike:

Keep in mind I will post the remaining USA courses listed by Golf Magazine. The world list is extremely debatable since a number of courses (i.e. The Ocean Course, Plainfield) were left off.

I'm sure the debate will be most interesting.

[ForkaB]

Matt

Here's my entry:

54--National Golf Club (Canada)
58--Ganton
60--Royal Adelaide
71--El Saler
73--Kawana
78--Metropolitain (Australia)
80--Rye
81--Wentworth

I'll pass on seeing Regis unless he agrees to let me on the show!

Rich

[Gib_Papazian]

re: Pac Dunes

I can name 10 good friends - none of whom are on a rating panel - who played the golf course long before it opened. Even with 12 holes, all of them walked and looked closely at the remaining holes.

Forget when the golf course officially opened - so many people went up there to get a preview that I find nothing strange about its inclusion on the list.

Before all you conspiracy theorists start beating the jungle drums, go see for yourself.

If you disagree, then I stand corrected.

Of course, if you disagree after playing the golf course, I am afraid you have no taste.

And I would say the same even if Rees Jones had designed it.

[Ben C. Dewar]

Rich,
No way National GC is 54, no way that it is ahead of Cape Breton.

I do not have the answers, but I would be in disbelief.

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