[Mike St]

I played Hamilton Farms this past Monday and it was unbelievable. The condition of the golf course for being its first year was perfect. The layout of the golf course is real good except for one or two holes. They also have a great 18 hole par 3 course. If you have played there let me know what you think. The course is located in northern NJ and should be best new club this year no problem. If not there is definately something wrong with the ranking system that golf digest uses.

[ForkaB]

Isn't this the one that was built by Lucent?  I hear it is up for sale.  Anybody know any more about this?

[Patrick_Mucci]

Rich,

Lucent sold the course.

The real question is: for how much ?

There is a lot more to the sale than the alleged purchase price.

I haven't played the course yet, perhaps Matt Ward or others have.

[mikest]

Not the course that was built by lucent. It was an old equestrian farm (Horse Jumping and course country trails for jumping).

[Matt_Ward]

Have played the course twice this season. I can provide a complete update in the next few hours.

Just a little tidbit -- Hamilton Farm completely embraces the concept of "private." More to follow ...

[GeoffreyC]

I played Hamilton Farm with the asst. pro and pro in mid July. I just got to tour the par 3 course in a cart. I hope to get back to play it as it looks like many of the holes look better than the par 3's on the regulation course.  I don't have much time for details but as Matt said Hamilton Farm is seriously private and a really good effort. I'll try to find my notes and post additional details later.  

[BillV]

Hamilton Farm is a pretty darned good modern course, but the bunkers don't really fit the landscape with their contrived regularly irregular bunker edges.  They started screaming after awhile.

The course and all its amenities sold for $51 million about 2 weeks ago.

It is right down the road from Phamracia in Gladstone, NJ, on the old Brady estate.

Definitely worth playing.  And a great, great golf experience.

Tommy Paul's turbo boost fairway concept is used in several holes most notably the par 5 9th with about 4 steps.

#2 par 5 has a pretty good principal's nose truly in play.

#5 also has turbo boost  steps and is drivable at about 360-380, interesting concept.

#6 has a green that melds into #7 tee and there is a barn there that you could concievably hit into the men's room near the green and have a shot out!

#18 had a green that was expansive and at fairway level and was one of  my favorite holes.

It is a course that plays easier than it looks in my opinion.  Loads of fun to play.

Geoffrey is right about the par 3 course, it may be the neatest thing there.  I have always had a fantasy about a course with 18 really really good par 3's.

[Mark_Fine]

Hamilton Farm is another big bold track on a very hilly piece of property.  The spectacular clubhouse and secluded setting will push this one higher than it should be.  It was built as a super exclusive retreat for select corporations to entertain special clients,...  The golf course itself is good but nothing out of the ordinary.  The design features extremely wide fairways and on occasion a better angle of attack is afforded by being in the proper position off the tee.  The bunkering is repetitive and the greens are undulating but not overly difficult to read and putt.  There are several excellent holes but too many that just don't have much in the way of strategy going on.  The waterfall on #9 is a bit too contrived for my taste.  That modernistic flare goes over the top on a hole that is already very dramatic.  The course is not really walkable and there are some uphill hikes to tees even from the cart paths.  It's always difficult to do a routing on a severe piece of property.  There usually has to be compromises to get in the best holes you can.  Overall, it's a good effort but it didn't live up to its billing.  From a golf experience standpoint, most will give it a very high rating.  From a Doak scale standpoint, I give it about a 6.  

Mark

[GeoffreyC]

Well I see that my good friend Bill beat me to it with his usual perfect memory for detail. I agree with his assessment.  However, I would mention that I don't quite object to the frilly edged bunkers as much as he did but I understand his point.  They are deep hazards to be avoided in most cases.  I even ran into some mesh/bunkerwol? with my club in the very deep greenside bunker on the excellent par 5 #2 as described by Bill. The central bunker Bill described on that hole is about 120 yards from the green.

I also enjoyed the 490 yard par 5 14th which features an evil looking bunker that appears to be at teh greens edge.  With the pin on the right as it was it almost looked like it was in the bunker.  However, its about 20 yards short of the green. A nice risk/reward hole.

The par 3 course is 3080 yards and holes range from 127 - 229 yards.

4 holes are over 200 yards
8 holes are between 150-199 yards
6 holes are less than 150 yards

There are no copies of the old classics or any really wild new ideas but the holes are all solid tests.  If I were a member there I would never spend time on the practice tee but instead work on all aspects of my game on the par 3 course.  I love the idea and I look forward to going back to play it if they will have me back.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bill V,

The $ 51 mm is illusory, very little if any money changed hands at the closing, and it is believed, with givebacks, that the final price will be well, well below $ 51 mm.

[BillV]

We walked it with caddies who really earned their money.

If a property is worth $51M, this one is based upon the clubhouse, mansion, the acreaga in int location.

Personally, I really don't care how much someone pays.  The original membership for the club was to be $1M for 18 members.  As of our play there were less than 20 members at a 75% discount of that first number as I understand it.  

[Matt_Ward]

Hamilton Farm is blessed with superb land. Yes, it's a bit hilly and that can distort shot values and be difficult to walk in spots. But, you can walk the course without too much strain.

With that said, Hamilton Farm is designed in a bold fashion with flashy bunkers and wide angle look that captures the eye.

The hole quality is good, but much of it rests with enhancing playability. For the top player there are only a few holes where the element of significant risk is at stake.
Good examples being the long par-3 3rd and delightful challenging mid-length par-4 4th. On the back side the 16th is also a solid long par-4.

I enjoyed the "turbo charged" 9th because it is such a wonderful risk and reward type hole. The back nine is thought by many people to be the more demanding but I can easily make the case that the front is not that much weaker. The finishing hole is also very good as it takes you back to the clubhouse (should really be called an estate) in grand fashion.

Credit Hurdzan / Fry for using the existing land contours and building a variety of holes. The putting surfaces are also good but very few of them are tightly bunkered to cause the pulse to beat faster.

I think Mark Fine is a bit too tough on a Doak # for the course. If pressed I'd say a bit higher ... no less than 6.5 ... a possible 7 when compared on a national basis.

Hamilton Farm will gain much hype because it is so exclusively private with all the bells and whistles amenities. The land also offers a rolling quality that bolsters the overall experience. The hole quality is good and steady but I view the bulk of them as cosmetic challenges not in the same league with the subtle and demanding architectural qualities you find at other Jersey heavyweights as Plainfield, Metedeconk National, Hollywood, and Baltusrol, to name just a few.

Still, all in all, Hamilton Farm should be looked at for the holes it has and not the focus on the private aspect. Solid Hurdzan / Fry design and see the course as a contender to be rated among Jersey's Top 20. A top 10 placement would be a clear stretch since the Garden State has so many other pre-existing superior courses.

Just a humble opinion ...

[Mark_Fine]

Matt,
Nice summary.  We'll hopefully talk more next week when we get together.  
Mark

Note:  If you thought this one was a boarderline 7, you are in for a real treat next week (especially if you are focusing on "the golf architecture"    

[Matt_Ward]

Mark,

Looking forward to next week.

If pressed I'd lean to a 6.5 for Hamilton Farm. High marks for land, above average routing but shot values a little mundane.

I do agree with your analysis of how the Doak rating system should be applied. Unfortunately, the flaw with people giving a rating deals with the people themselves. Unless you know how many courses a course has played the process becomes one of serious confusion.

Some people view 5 as being just average ... I believe Doak sees 3 as an average grade. You are quite right there are too many people throwing 8, 9 and even 10's around like they were candy.

I hope people when they get the opportunity to play Hamilton Farm don't get lost in the shuffle with all the bells and whistles amenities. The gigor can sometimes distract people from the real task in assessing the course.

[Mike St]

Mike St,

I am a GD national rating panelist who lives in NJ and I've had the opportunity to play Hamilton Farm twice.

You stated that Hamilton Farm should be the best new private course "this year no problem" otherwsie there is something wrong with the rating system that GD uses.

Mike, a few questions. How many other top private new clubs have you played this year?
I can tell you that Carnegie Abbey in Porstmouth, RI and The Kingsley Club in NW Michigan are no less serious contenders for the top honor. If you played these two other courses I'd like to know your thoughts.

Too often, many people will make bold and far reaching conclusions. I don't know how many other courses people have played but I know from my many travels that although a new course in one area of the country may indeed be very good there are significant contenders in other parts as well that cannot be so easily diminished.

As a GD rater I'd put The Kingsley Club first, then Carnegie Abbey and then Hamilton Farm.

Just a humble opinion.

[Matt_Ward]

The previous post was from me ... I apoligize for any confusion.

mw

[Mike_Cirba]

Matt,

It's exciting to hear that the Kingsley Club is as good as it looks.  A couple of friends of mine played Hamilton Farms and really liked it, as well.  However, I'm not sure they really fell "in love" as one seems wont to do at TKC.  

[SPDB]

Hamilton Farm was a prime motivation in the firing of Richard McGinn, former LU CEO. How he could go ahead with the construction of a an exclusive golf club, using company funds, while that same company was returning nothing in the way of profits to investors, and was on the brink of insolvency, will go down as one of the monumental mismanagements in history. I understand that Finn Kasperson, a wealthy New Jersian (?), bought it, and plans to make a private club out of the place.

Matt - i am still intrigued by how impressed you were with Carnegie Abbey. I too was, as well, and I get the impression that you and I are the only ones on this board who have had occasion to play it. All GCA subscribers will have an opportunity to see the course, and it's seemingly old-world quality, when they broadcast on Oct. 10 (i think) the shell match that was played there between Strange and Torrance. The winning score was +2, I think. Not too bad for a course that measures roughly 6500 yards (again, I think).

Interested posters can check out some pics of the course at: http://www.carnegieabbeyclub.com

Cheers,
Sean

[Scott_Burroughs]

I love the layout of the 18th hole.  What a risk/reward short par 4!  At only 274 yards, do you go for the green with a power fade or play safe?  It took guts to place a (very) short par 4 as the finisher.  I can see Tin Cup continuing to go for it from the tee.

[Scott_Burroughs]

I'm talking about Carnegie Abbey above.

[Patrick_Mucci]

SPDB,

You're right about the spending of Money.

Regarding Carnegie Abbey, I've heard mixed reviews, even from people who joined, so I'm curious as to why you and Matt rate it so high.

[Matt_Ward]

Pat:

Carnegie Abbey is located on a superb tract of land no less in overall quality than Hamilton Farm. Here's the rub why it rates so high in my opinion:

Donald Steel did a superb job in the creation of bunkers that have substanial "old world" looks. Land a wayward shot in any one of them and you will know what punishmsnt of poor shots can mean.

Second, the putting greens are among the most imaginative I have seen for a new course in the last few years. You can add The Kingsley Club and even Arcadia Bluffs as courses with unique putting contours that test you throughout your round.

Carnegie Abbey does have a difficult walk between the 5th green and 6th tee. Staff at the club does transport you there. The rest is OK for those who are in walking shape.

The flow of the course is wonderfully done. Constant change of pace holes and the desire to keep the tract "firm and fast" is a real plus given fescue fairways. And, most of all, given the relative lack of total yardage (the course is less than 6600 yards from the tips) and you still must produce quality shots because of the shifting winds in the immediate area. You can never relax on any shot and there are really no fundamentally weak holes.

I can name a number of holes that are
truly unique and clearly in the Shell's match the two players, Curtis Strange and Sam Torrance, did not actually rip up the course with low scores. The 18th, as previously mentioned, is an glorious short par-4 that rivals with such comparable finishers as The Olympic Club and Inverness, to name just two.

Pat -- what specifics do people have who are less than complimentary of Carnegie Abbey??? Have they also played The Kingsley Club, Hamilton Farm in order to make comparisons with other notable private clubs that have opened this year???

Any insights you can provide are most welcomed.

[SPDB]

I think that Carnegie Abbey is one of the most inventive routings i have seen, and gives the course 3 separate characteristics, as it winds up the rolling hillside, down, back up, and down once again.

The desire to keep the fescue firm and fast was articulated even before a single yard of earth was moved. That is fairly respectable in this day and age.

I do have some minor problems with the 18th, but as an inventive and exciting way to finish it is beyond reproach.

When you witness the revetted sod faced bunkering featured at C.A.C., it will occur to you that maybe American born designers just don't get it, and perhaps it is an art that only those born in the Isles are blessed with.  

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