Scott,

Now how do you do that?

Bob

Has Mr Trump been advising the All Blacks on self-confidence and media strategy?

"So, too, the arrogant assumption that they always know better than the law-makers and referees. Unbelievable. Arm yourself with a law book guys, take an honest look at the match tapes and see just how much the All Blacks get away with."

This is what is ruining Rugby for me.  The past few years the best team in the world have also been the most outstanding cheats. (Don’t start me on all black history).  

The authorities have been quite successful in their attempts to clean up dirty play in Rugby, now they need to turn their attention to cheating. 10 minutes off the pitch for a ‘professional foul’ is a disgrace to the name of sport.  Of course the NZ’s are not the only team doing this it’s always been there but it has got much worse in the professional era.

On the commentary on Saturday Stuart Barnes said in his commentary (England vs. Australia) on national television, in effect, that cheating was admirable as long as you get away with it.  Is this the lesson we want kids to learn from Rugby?  It’s certainly not why I watch.

I realize I’m coming over all JK on this, but it’s getting worse and it takes away so much enjoyment for me.  Even the usually pathetic governing bodies and the press of Soccer realise that people diving is undermining their sport and must be abhorred.

 What would Bobby Jones make of this mess?   Perhaps I’m a romantic fool who believes too much in the old gag about “a game for barbarians played by gentlemen”.  It saddens me that I seem to be in a minority when I express this view to fellow supporters.

Kicking a team when it's down? Mention this normally and you just get called a poor loser. So now you are losers, I hope more people will finally speak out.

Fully agree, Tony

Football used to be a game for gentlemen played by thugs and Rugby a game for thugs played by gentlemen.

Now, Football is a game for thugs played by drama queens and Rugby a game for thugs played by unindicted co-conspirators.

Sic transit gloria mundi.......

James

Agree.

Both semis will be very interesting, if probably far too dull, given the current relationship between tactics and rules.  I'm rooting for the Argies.  The Springboks need to be dumped on their puffed-up heads, just like their fellow non-american antipodeans.

Rich

Football used to be a game for gentlemen played by thugs and Rugby a game for thugs played by gentlemen.

Now, Football is a game for thugs played by drama queens and Rugby a game for thugs played by unindicted co-conspirators.

Great stuff, Rich.

You should take those two paragraphs and knock out a quick free-lance piece for ... someone!

Football used to be a game for gentlemen played by thugs and Rugby a game for thugs played by gentlemen.

I knew Mark would find this thread not without interest

Bob or others:

As a fan of both sports, but a much more devoted follower of football (soccer), I've always been intrigued about how the sports were treated in the UK, and in Ireland and how it all developed.

On an international level, would it be correct to say that England - and by extension Commonwealth countries - have pretty much always been dominant in rugby because most schoolboys treated it as the #1 sport, and if they played football (soccer) at all, it was just a diversion?  Or something like that?  And then they only became as good as they are internationally in soccer in say the last few decades (1966 nothwithstanding) because of the lack of attention to it?

And regarding the Republic of Ireland, weren't BOTH sports pretty much illegal, if not uttery cryit down, as ENGLISH sports?  And thus Ireland doing as well as they have internationally in either sport is a modern phenomenon?

Remember I'm asking as an interested American, hopefully a little up on these things, but also inundated with our American sports and our US-centric view of things.

TH

ps - curious side-note:  as I sit here and type today, I am wearing a US national team rugby shirt, vintage 1995 or so.  So never let it be said I am not a loyal follower of our national sides.  

Rihc,

Your bit was more to the point. The hugging and kissing in soccer is just downwright upchucking. Score a goal, take off your shirt and wave it around your head and then get a dry run is disgusting. For goodness sakes they get paid a hundred thousand pounds a week, they ought to score a bloody goal once in a while.

Tom,

England was top of the heap in football from the 1870s until well into the mid 1900s. Their very first defeat on home soil to a non-British side did not come until the shock loss to a Hungarian side in 1953.

As for all British kids playing rugby that isn't so. The general populace played soccer and the fee-paying schoolchildren (a much smaller population played the other game). The working class game of rugby was known as the Rugby League whereas the toffee-nose (pure  amateur) game was known as Rugby Union.

Bob

England was top of the heap in football from the 1870s until well into the mid 1900s. Their very first defeat on home soil to a non-British side did not come until the shock loss to a Hungarian side in 1953.

Has anyone written a (short, wonderful) book about that?

A promising subject, if you ask me.

Well guys after the brilliant trip to Nor Cal this defeat was quite a shock.  The media has been full of it since the loss.  You should hear the talk back radio.
There is not one answer to why they cannot win a World Cup.  Personally I dont think the rotation policy worked.  The conditioning programme was also flawed.  I think you play the best team for each game, get the combinations going and yoyr leadership emerges on the field.  For a team like the AB's they really should have had only 3 hard games.  Players should not need motivating for a World Cup no matter how many games they have played.  In days gone passed the starting team hardly ever changed, now it changes every game.  As a result some of the lustre has gone from the Black jersey.
I dont think this team has been arrogant.  Passed teams certainly have.  PR has been carefully managed.  As for the haka, perhaps we see it to many times because there are to many matches for national teams.
The next few months will be interesting here.  I will console myself thinking about the great courses and people I met n Nor Cal.