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Gene Greco

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #75 on: October 14, 2005, 05:08:06 PM »
Tom:
"That was before Sand Hills and Pacific Dunes were opened for play.  They'd be close to this list."

Go to: (Reply#7)

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=5355;start=0

Splitting hairs, I know. 8)  
"...I don't believe it is impossible to build a modern course as good as Pine Valley.  To me, Sand Hills is just as good as Pine Valley..."    TOM DOAK  November 6th, 2010

Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #76 on: October 14, 2005, 05:34:44 PM »
I'm not as well-traveled as some, especially in terms of the U.S. private clubs, but I enjoyed going through my memories and doing a list. In no particular order:

The Old Course, St. Andrews
Shinnecock Hills
Pacific Dunes
Walton Heath Old
Bethpage Black
Carnoustie
Kingsbarns
Haagsche
The Island
and my sentimental favorite: Royal Ashdown Forest

Keith Durrant

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #77 on: October 14, 2005, 05:46:16 PM »
Agreed, this thread is about meandering through one's memories of enjoyable rounds, wistfully hoping to replay (for one romantic reason or another):

Rosses Point
Kittansett
Stoke Poges
Carlow
Deal
St Medan
Huntercombe
Hoylake
Royal Guernsey
The Berkshire

Brian Cenci

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #78 on: October 14, 2005, 07:29:04 PM »
I always like lists.  I am sure that some of the mentions, Forest Akers - West, Pilgrim's Run, Tullymore is just because the lack of overall courses played.  However, I am a big fan of Forest Akers-West.  Anyways, my top 30....in order:

#1     Bandon Dunes
#2     Crystal Downs
#3     Prairie Dunes
#4     Bandon Trails
#5     Pacific Dunes
#6     Arcadia Bluffs
#7     Lakewood Shores - Gailes
#8     Harvester Golf Club
#9     Olympia Fields (North)
#10   Oakland Hills
#11   Greywalls
#12   Tanglewood Park (Championship)
#13   Hazeltine National Golf Club
#14   Kingsley Club
#15   Victoria National Golf Club
#16   Golf Club at Redlands Mesa
#17   Lakota Canyon Ranch and Golf Club
#18   Wild Horse
#19   Eagle Eye
#20   World Woods (Pine Barrons)
#21   Hammock Bay
#22   Forest Dunes
#23   Hawktree
#24   Tullymore
#25   Circling Raven
#26   Quarry at Giants Ridge
#27   Old Works
#28   Links of North Dakota
#29   Bucks Run            
#30   Thistle Club   

Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #79 on: October 14, 2005, 08:38:36 PM »
Brian Cenci: Aren't you the guy who made that epic road trip not too long ago? Did you knock out this top 30 list in about a three week time span?  ;) (How'd it go...?)

John Pflum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #80 on: October 14, 2005, 09:07:09 PM »
Well, I guess I should chime in.  I haven't played all that many "great" course but my list would be:

Crystal Downs (Can I put this one down a couple times?)  
Bandon Dunes
Pinehurst #2
Bay Harbor
Pacific Dunes
The Cascades
Shaker Run
--
jvdp

Robert Emmons

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #81 on: October 14, 2005, 09:19:20 PM »
My turn...in no order...USA only this time


Augusta
Pebble Beach
Pacific Dunes
L. A. North
Fishers Island
Merion
Seminole
Piping Rock
NGLA
GCGC
Shinnicock Hills
Baltusrol lower
Wing Foot west
wannamoiset
Floridian

Ben Voelker

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #82 on: October 15, 2005, 01:52:05 AM »
I bet I don't even have 10 I could include, here are the best I've played,

1. Sand Hills
2. Blackwolf Run (River)
3. Wild Horse
4. Harvester
5. Whistling Straits (Whistling Straits)
6. Torrey Pines (South)
7. Cog Hill
8. Pine Meadow

There's my limited list of very, very good to great courses that I've played.  I hope this list gets substantially bigger sometime soon.

HamiltonBHearst

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #83 on: October 15, 2005, 08:45:29 AM »


Maidstone
NGLA
SHGC
Pocantico
Pine valley
Augusta
SFGC
Cypress Point
Chicago
Seminole

Anthony_Nysse

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #84 on: October 15, 2005, 09:04:47 AM »
Not in any true order.....

Shinnecock
Kinloch
The Honors
Maidstone
The Black
Kingsley Club
NGLA
TPC
Sage Valley
Long Cove (maybe a bit bias, but the more I play it, the better it gets-just a really solid course)

Tony Nysse
Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC
Anthony J. Nysse
Director of Golf Courses & Grounds
Apogee Club
Hobe Sound, FL

wsmorrison

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #85 on: October 15, 2005, 09:09:34 AM »
Not to be construed as a rigorous list; though I do have a clear number one.   The remaining are among my most favorite courses played.

Shinnecock Hills (my favorite course on earth)

Merion East
Pine Valley
Royal Dornoch
The Old Course, St. Andrews
Sand Hills
Royal St. George's
Prestwick
Royal Ashdown Forest
Indian Creek

HBH,

Interesting that you'd include Pocantico Hills Golf Course among you're top ten.  Care to explain?  I have a close friend that considers it his favorite course of all.  I'm curious as to your view.  I think it a wonderful course on perhaps the greatest property I have ever seen.  I wish the greens would be expanded to their former dimensions and the bunkering maintained better.  Do you like the lack of fairway cut?


Adam_Messix

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #86 on: October 15, 2005, 11:35:37 AM »
Tony N--

Including Long Cove on any list of top courses is not a stretch at all.  It has one of the best sets of greens that I have seen.  

As far as a top ten list goes, in order

Shinnecock Hills
Pinehurst No. 2
Pine Valley
Oakmont
Cypress Point
National Golf Links
Muirfield (Scotland)
The Old Course at St. Andrews
Merion East
San Francisco Golf Club


Cory Lewis

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #87 on: October 15, 2005, 01:07:32 PM »
My top ten is in a very specific order, and after a few years of no changing, I added two to the list this year.

1. Royal Dornoch, (will always be number 1)
2. Royal County Down
3. Cypress Point
4. Pinehurst #2
5. St. Andrews
6. Fishers Island
7. Royal Portrush
8. Bandon Dunes
9. NGLA
10. Bethpage(Black)

Honorable Mentions:  Friars Head, Pebble Beach, San Francisco, North Berwick, Garden City
Instagram: @2000golfcourses
http://2000golfcourses.blogspot.com

HamiltonBHearst

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #88 on: October 15, 2005, 06:16:00 PM »


Wayne

Pocantico is in my top ten.  Were I only allowed to play one course, it would not be as I would rotate any number of courses here.  Played it recently  with Chuck R. who wants a little touch up work done, of course he is a member at NGLA, Sleepy Hollow, Piping Rock and Seminole.  He wants more manicured.  Have also played with Chuck C. who takes the kids out with one set of clubs.  No course is better for that than Pocantico.

Frankly, I like the look as it is.  Any greens would be better expanded to the original dimensions. the bunkers are fine and I am a believer in just one fairway cut.  I really do not care how high the fairway  is but it is preferable that it is one  universal height with no defined angle of attack. It works better this way.  I am not a big fan of the art work but. ;)I have had some memorable rounds there.  Once, in the snow, with a flask and numerous kids sleigh riding on the course while we played with orange top-flights.

Thomas Jefferson designed the most revered architectural complex in the U.S. with his "academical village" in Charlottesville.  It is perfection in both aesthetics, recognition of history, and in function.  In short a masterpiece.

Flynn designed a masterpiece of golf architecture at SHGC.

Jefferson also designed perhaps the most recognized private home in the world in Charlottesville at Monticello.  It is not perfect architecture nor is it a top ten home.  But it is a wonderful whimisical effort at satisfying one person.  Pocantico is a wonderful whimsical effort by Flynn in satisfying one family.  In this he succeeded.

Steve Lapper

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #89 on: October 15, 2005, 06:22:01 PM »
Top Ten played:
(In Specific Order)

1) Royal Melbourne Composite
2) Royal Dornoch
3) Pine Valley
4) Shinnecock
5) Sand Hills
6) HCEG Muirfield
7) Royal Portrush
8) Royal County Down
9) Cypress Point
10) Merion East

Next Ten (In Order):

11) Oakmont
12) Kingston Heath
13) The Old Course, St. Andrews
14) New South Wales
15) NGLA
16) Ballybunion (Old)
17) Fishers Island
18) Pacific Dunes
19) Prairie Dunes
20) Myopia Hunt Club

Honorable Mention (or next 10)

Chicago
National at Moonah
Friars Head
Bethpage Black
LACC North
Pinehurst #2
Royal St. Georges
Royal Birkdale
Cruden Bay
Turnberry

Wanting to Play the most (in order):

1) Augusta National
2) Crystal Downs
3) Barnbougle
4) Old Sandwich
5) Camargo
6) Sutton Bay
7) Yale
8) St. Andrews Beach
9) Cape Kidnappers
10) Kingsley, Hirono, Kitansett, Boston GC, Sebonack, Lakota Canyon, Black Rock, Swinley Forest

Top ten of "Been there, done that, ain't going back":

1) Oakland Hills
2) Pebble Beach
3) The Bridge
4) Royal Sydney
5) Butler National
6) Whistling Straits
7) Anything Trump
8) Carnoustie
9) Old Head
10) Waterville

« Last Edit: October 15, 2005, 06:31:14 PM by Steve Lapper »
The conventional view serves to protect us from the painful job of thinking."--John Kenneth Galbraith

John Pflum

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #90 on: October 15, 2005, 07:01:36 PM »
5) Camargo


Steve,

If you have any suggestions on how to get on that track let me know.  It's only about 15 minutes from my house and all I can ever do is drive past it.  :-(  
--
jvdp

Michael Moore

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #91 on: October 15, 2005, 08:40:18 PM »
Dean Estate
Sunnylands
Arran Point
Porcupine Creek
Pocantico Hills
Waiahole Country Club
Piney Thicket
3 Ponds Farm
Asherwood
The Shamrock
Metaphor is social and shares the table with the objects it intertwines and the attitudes it reconciles. Opinion, like the Michelin inspector, dines alone. - Adam Gopnik, The Table Comes First

Mark_F

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #92 on: October 16, 2005, 04:41:23 AM »
Sean,

Does England actually have any really, truly, great courses?

Royal St George's maybe - but isn't it a bit strange/quirky for most?

I think Sunningdale Old is beautiful, but not that great, and Woodhall is almost great.

Maybe England just has more really, really good, and really neat, courses than anywhere else, but is the Arsenal to Ireland/Scotland's Chelsea?

Mark_F

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #93 on: October 16, 2005, 06:51:32 AM »
Sean,

Maybe it is just the case that Scotland/Ireland has the obvious half dozen or so each, but England has so many to choose from it just becomes too hard.

Ganton and Woodhall are lovely, but not 'essential'.

And 'cool Brittania' or not, England doesn't have the street cred of Scotland or Ireland, does it?

Still, at least they are ahead of the Welsh. ;D

Mike_Cirba

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2005, 12:08:01 AM »
I have to say that I find it peculiarly interesting that a number of folks who've railed against "raters" in the past seem all too willing to list their own "ratings", by disseminating their own "Top 10", etc..  ;D

It makes me wonder if these folks actually object to the whole process of "rating" as an impossible exercise due to the subjective biases of individuals or whether they simply object to the process due to issues of access.

ForkaB

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2005, 12:14:25 AM »
Mark

If Swinley Forest planted a few thousand mature trees (including a judiciously chosen few in their bunkers) they could challenge Pine Valley for #1 in a New Jersey minute!

Mike_Cirba

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2005, 12:28:10 AM »
Mark

If Swinley Forest planted a few thousand mature trees (including a judiciously chosen few in their bunkers) they could challenge Pine Valley for #1 in a New Jersey minute!

Rich,

The problem is simply that even with the deficiencies in the present day maintenance of Pine Valley, there are no other classic courses that are being maintained so much better as to overcome it's huge lead in world-class holes.

The closest is probably Shinnecock, but it's tough to make a serious argument that it stands up hole for hole against PV.

NGLA may be the best case for us purists, but it's a long stretch to convince the scratch or pencil-carrying player.

Others like Merion and Cypress have their own issues, not the least of which is some questionable bunker work in recent years.

ANGC has plantings of trees galore, and at about 7500 yards, is starting to become a Frankensteinian monster bearing little relationship to what it could and should be.

Pinehurst #2 is a bit too one-dimensional in terms of the challenge provided.

I need to study Oakmont more, admittedly, since it's been since 1983 that I've been there.  

But, for me...

I think Sand Hills is the best course in the country.  

I'm also beginnning to think that some of our other modern favorites should rank higher in the pantheon of overall courses than they presently do, largely due to historical reputation.

For instance, I played Boston Golf Club recently and I'd be very hard pressed to name ten courses, past or present, that I've enjoyed more.

wsmorrison

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2005, 07:41:17 AM »
"I have to say that I find it peculiarly interesting that a number of folks who've railed against "raters" in the past seem all too willing to list their own "ratings", by disseminating their own "Top 10", etc."

Mike,

I made sure that I noted that my list was a top 10 favorite courses, I did not rank them based upon any criteria.  On a technicality I remain guilt-free from ranking bashing  ;D

"The closest is probably Shinnecock, but it's tough to make a serious argument that it stands up hole for hole against PV."

I'd like to hear your hole by hole comparison of Shinnecock vs. Pine Valley.  Here's mine:

Hole 1  +1 SH
Hole 2  even
Hole 3  +1 SH
Hole 4  even
Hole 5  +1 PV
Hole 6  even
Hole 7  I would go +1 SH if they used the Flynn tee, since they don't, +1 PV
Hole 8  +2 PV
Hole 9  +1 PV
Hole 10  even
Hole 11  +1 SH
Hole 12  +2 SH
Hole 13  +1 SH
Hole 14  +2 SH
Hole 15  +1 SH, although the two holes are very close, I gave the edge to PV
Hole 16  +2 SH
Hole 17  +1 SH
Hole 18  even

Wind, the greater challenge to the best golfers and playability for high handicappers tips the scale decidedly in the favor of Shinnecock Hills.  My favorite golf course in the world!  

Mike_Cirba

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #98 on: October 17, 2005, 11:47:32 AM »
Wayne,

I'm not a big fan of the "Match play" method, since I think a hole like #11 at Shinnecock would get two points in a win (like a boxer who scores a knockdown for instance), and I also think it's very difficult to compare par threes against fives, etc.

That being said, I'll give it a shot, scoring two points where appropriate.

1 - PV 1up
2 - PV 2up
3 - PV 3up
4 - Push
5 - PV 5up
6 - PV 4up
7 - Push
8 - PV 5up
9 - PV 4up

10 - PV 3up
11 - PV 1up
12 - Even
13 - PV 2up
14 - Even
15 - PV 1up
16 - Even
17 - PV 1up
18 - Even.

Hmm...the only one I'd rethink on re-examination is #10.  Some people hate Shinnie's 10th, I happen to love it, but it's tough not to give props to the Devil's A-hole.  

So, we're pretty close, but tree clearing on the left of #12 as we discussed last week would cinch it for PV in a tight decision.

wsmorrison

Re:Your Top 10
« Reply #99 on: October 17, 2005, 12:03:47 PM »
Mike,

I know the flaws in the match play analysis.  I just thought it would be fun to do a hole-by-hole.  Interesting where we differ.  Agreed that the 12th at PV would be considerably improved with tree clearing back to where we discussed.  Easy to do and the results would be incredible.  By the way, I share your regard for the 11th at Shinnecock.  It is my favorite short par 3 in golf.  I like the back and forth swings you gave with extra points on the 13th and 14th holes at PV and SH respectively.  Like heavyweight greats duking it out!