Hey Jay,

Your site says that Yale 17 is a biarritz, but you claim here you never said that. What's with that?

Hey Jay,

Your site says that Yale 17 is a biarritz, but you claim here you never said that. What's with that?

I think he actually said it is a "bizarre double plateau" and some readers may have misread his comment.

Or maybe not!  

I truly admire Jay for having the cojones to spend as much time writing about golf, and actually creating a venue for his writing, as he does.  A lot of us "talk the talk," Jay walks the walk, at least in writing.  And maybe he misspeaks from time to time, but what the hell, who's perfect?

I was wrong back then, but I fixed it.  Problem solved.  But you know what else...OLD NEWS.  You guys keep harping on an article I wrote back in June of '06.  OLD NEWS.

Good luck with your logic on this explanation. It hasn't worked on my wife in 25 years of marriage.

Joe

Tommy,

Reportedly, while Macan was recovering from his WWI injuries/amputation, he did read (and re-read) Concerning Golf. I don't know about Behr, but it seems Macan was very familiar with, and a student of John Low's architectural principles (as per Mike Riste's excellent research).

Tommy,

Reportedly, while Macan was recovering from his WWI injuries/amputation, he did read (and re-read) Concerning Golf. I don't know about Behr,  

Jay, I just want to point out that Concerning Golf was a Low book. Behr curiously never did a book. Unless Macan made it down to So Cal, where almost every course he did resides, it would've been difficult for him to glean any particular style per se, only concepts from his many articles and essays. While I have by no means read everything Behr has ever done, I do know from what I have read that Behr talked a great deal about what an ideal course was and the virtues of what strategy really meant. However, he did so few courses that it's hard to garner what he "put on the ground" unless those courses were visited and the photo's of those courses ( at time of completion) were seen at the perspective clubs, since alot of Behr's work has been altered so much from what they were originally.

 Macan studied Behr as well as Low.

 

I didn't. I merely made a side point that Behr never did one, which was curious since his voice was huge in the world of arch and golf in general in the early 20th century. And BTW, it would've been strange of me to say he read one since he never wrote one, but I'm sure you knew that. Hawaii is a few thousand miles away. I'm sure he could've gotten there from the Pacific Northwest if he had to. I'm curious, is it known when he visited Hawaii?

I tell ya what...why don't you ask Jeff Shelley or Mingay?  They know more about him than I do.

Fair enough.

Jay, Are you trying to say The California Golf Club of San Francisco aka The Cal Club?

From what I've researched so far, if indeed Macan was there, it wasn't long afterwards that some surgeon named Alister redid it.

Jay, I want proof of Macan studying Max Behr. Where did you find this information?

Jeff,
Yes, Macan did write for Pacific Coast Golfer and probably in all likelihood did read the writings of Max Behr, but without definitive proof, such as a quote that would be speculation now wouldn't it?

And that's my point here. Definitive proof. I'm asking Jay to provide this. That's all I want. Jay, the platform is yours. Let see your proof.

Tommy, I am not responding to you.  I am not interested in satisfying your curiosity, having discussions with your anything else.  Who the hell do you think you are to ask anything of me after the cheap tricks you TRY to pull on me?  And don't play dumb, you know what I'm referring to.  I have a long memory.

Go prove whatever you want to yourself.  You are not "King of all things Behr"...or GCA for that matter.

Panhandle Bill,
Max Behr created the NLE Capuchino CC and did work at Olympic Club.

Jay, I'm just holding you accountable for your writing.

I'll email Jeff Shelley myself if I have to to find out where you/he/whomever found out this important information that you have uncovered, yet won't explain your sources. (I suspect a journalistic integrity on your part at it's very worst. But why am I not surprised?)

Yes, it is hard to do a blog everyday. Panhandle Bill is right about that. But maybe this is a reason you should stick to other subjects you have more knowledge of. Certainly your Macan piece is as informative as your writing that George Bahto co-authored his book with Charles Banks, whose been dead since 1931.

From the Walk in the Park blog:

ONe editorial note, some of the hole descriptions are excerpted by Jim from Bahto and Banks’ book which descirbes Yale really well.

For you to make such assumptions without FACTS is what I am getting at here. You see Jay, I do believe Macan probably knew of Behr, probably read him just like many were during the day. He was a controversial figure that had to be listened to simply because he was one of the better known amateur players of his day and was the editor of Golf Illustrated;as well as contributor to the USGA Green Section, and each and everyone of his articles and writing took people to task for their, inaccuracies and viewpoints of the Sport at large.

Did he follow Behr's principles? No, I don't think so. They may have been of the same cloth as Tull has suggested, but the shaping wasn't all that great; sort of piles here and there, mind you interesting piles, but not random in nature. In my opinion, the routing and use of land was Macan's strong suit and if I can make a broad assumption on my part--probably the reason why MacKenzie and Robert Hunter's American Golf Course Construction was brought in at Cal Club to alter Macan's original design.

You know Jay, that's a lot of information right there, so feel free to use it when you change your treatise and eliminate the revisionist tendencies of your writings--at least in this latest chapter of A Walk In The Park.

(By the way, wasn't this the name of a Golfweek book?)

Tommy, I'm not listening and neither is Jeff.  You don;t hold me accountable for anything.  You have no integrity and are crying for attention with your vacuous, thespian like bombast.

THIS THREAD IS CLOSED.

...
THIS THREAD IS CLOSED.

Wow, even George and I don't inspire that much animosity in Barney.

What's your secret Tommy?