[Tom Huckaby]

Kalen - that's a darn interesting idea.  My first thought is nah, that would make it too easy... but the more I think about it, if they kept that hillside screaming firm and fast (which would be pretty darn easy to do) it would make for one very very interesting golf hole.  

I'm just not sure that removing the obvious fear factor the bunker gives most players is a good thing.  Take that out and what would be the point of ever laying back?  It then becomes a pretty strategy-less extreme long par 3 really.  it would still be a difficult hole, and a fun hole....

But in the end we need to instill some fear to keep the shot choices confounding on the tee.

So after all this I say leave the bunker in.  But it is intriguing for sure!

[Tom Huckaby]

...I also concur that 75% of the Midam participants are gonna hate the hole... which makes me call it GREAT!

If that is the case, than clearly Art Hills is the greatest architect known to man  .  

The hole worked for none of us.  There is no shot.  Quirky is fine.  Unfair is not.  Blow up the green or widen the landing area.  I can see where 18 could be argued as quirky.  If 75% of the Mid-Am participants do agree (And we both think they will) than it is bad.

So sayeth you.

I love holes that confound good players without causing penalty strokes.  They are few and far between.  Thus I say LONG LIVE #14!

I have a very hard time calling unfair a hole I've seen 8 handicaps birdie.  Difficult yes as each of them also made 6 or worse in subsequent playings... unfair?  No way.  Hell one can play it with 5iron + PW, which is likely the best way to do it.  It is tough to hit and hold the green but I've seen it done, even downwind... Into the wind all it takes is a normally-struck shot.

Blowing up the green is madness - it's freakin' genius.  Widening the landing area up to the left makes it too easy for you long hitters.

Nope, leave it just as is.

TH

[Jim Nugent]

If you hit your tee shot on #14 to the right, can you lay up in front of the green with your second?  i.e., not try to hit the green at all, but instead chip or pitch or bump and run or even putt short of the green in the front?  This way you don't try to hold the green, don't risk running down the bank off the back or chunking into the bunkers, and may be able to save par if you can get up and down.  

Never played the course.  Just asking/speculating based on the pix.  

[Tom Huckaby]

If you hit your tee shot on #14 to the right, can you lay up in front of the green with your second?  i.e., not try to hit the green at all, but instead chip or pitch or bump and run or even putt short of the green in the front?  This way you don't try to hold the green, don't risk running down the bank off the back or chunking into the bunkers, and may be able to save par if you can get up and down.  

Never played the course.  Just asking/speculating based on the pix.  

YES!
It just takes a darn huge amount of discipline and/or realization of one's limitations to play such a short shot sideways, not even trying for the target.  But what Dave left out is that the lies on the right are uneven... you can get a downhill lie off the side of a knob if you are unlucky... and particularly in that case, it's a darn smart play to punt and just go for the area in front of the green.

I did exactly this one time... cut it too fine, ball went in bunker anyway.... from which point I holed out (as mentioned earlier in this thread)... my only birdie on the hole.

TH

[Tim Pitner]

If you hit your tee shot on #14 to the right, can you lay up in front of the green with your second?  i.e., not try to hit the green at all, but instead chip or pitch or bump and run or even putt short of the green in the front?  This way you don't try to hold the green, don't risk running down the bank off the back or chunking into the bunkers, and may be able to save par if you can get up and down.  

Never played the course.  Just asking/speculating based on the pix.  

Jim,

Yes, that's a good play.  It's what I was suggesting above, in Post #18.  Are my posts invisible?

I think some of the complaints about #14 are from people who haven't figured out how to play the hole yet.  It can be approached aggressively from the tee, but if you miss right, you then have to play defensively unless you can get the ball to stop on a dime on a pretty firm green.  As Tom H says, it requires discipline especially if you're not used to having to play away from the flag.  

I also have to echo what Ed and Tom H pointed out earlier--how can the hole be easier for higher handicaps?  With the slopes to the right and left of the green and the deep bunker right, one could end up going back and forth across the green for an eternity.  

[Garland Bayley]

...

The hole worked for none of us.  There is no shot.  Quirky is fine.  Unfair is not.  Blow up the green or widen the landing area.  I can see where 18 could be argued as quirky.  If 75% of the Mid-Am participants do agree (And we both think they will) than it is bad.

Ah! So now the hole is "Unfair". Next I suppose you will want all the trees limbed up so that they don't interfere with your backswing!  

[Eric Olsen]

With respect to the approach shots on PD 6 vs. BT 14, PD 6 is indeed ass tightening, from whatever angle, but if you execute you will be rewarded.  I do not believe that BT 14 provides the same opportunity.  It is simply too severe.  I have held drives on the left side of the fairway, but my standard second shot from any location is to the left of the green and then try to get up and down.  I still maintain it would be better to pull that green down the slope and back about 60 yards, and that it would be a better, more fun, short par 4.

[Steve Kline]

I'm looking forward (although somewhat scared now) at playing this hole in the Mid-Am. It seems that while I might try to go for the green in a casual round that the play in the tourney would be to hit a 4, 5, or 6 iron to the left leaving a wedge of some sort to the length of the green. Is that what most would advise? I've never played the course, but my objective in the stroke play is to avoid doubles. I can recover from bogeys with the occasional birdies.

[Tom Huckaby]

Steve - just make sure you do get at least one practice round in.  As much as we love to BS about the hole, it's meaningless compared to you seeing it in person. I feel confident when you do, you'll know what to do.

Only issue is this:  it's darn near impossible to leave any layup on the left side so the approach is up the length of the green - the fairway cants severely from left to right.  Only way to get a shot up the length is to get it to a small flat area up near the green.

It will all make sense when you see the golf hole.

TH

[Eric Olsen]

Steve,

I would always hit driver, unless you are so long that you may go over the green.  My biggest caution would be to avoid going long at all costs, as there is not much room behind the green.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Eric:

Would you advise one who's bad miss is left to "always hit driver?"

I believe Steve will know what to do, based on his game and the conditions that day.  It could well be that laying back to 100, on the right, is a viable shot for him as he's likely a great wedge player.  Do that and 5 is the worst score he will make.  Particularly if his bad miss is left, driver brings all sorts of crooked number possibilities.

TH

[Tim Pitner]

I'm looking forward (although somewhat scared now) at playing this hole in the Mid-Am. It seems that while I might try to go for the green in a casual round that the play in the tourney would be to hit a 4, 5, or 6 iron to the left leaving a wedge of some sort to the length of the green. Is that what most would advise? I've never played the course, but my objective in the stroke play is to avoid doubles. I can recover from bogeys with the occasional birdies.

Steve,

You may find that the best play off the tee is to hit enough club to get you as close to the green as possible, without going over (the Price is Right strategy).  With the cant in the fairway and the small landing area on the green, a lay-up off the tee does not guarantee par.  I like driver or 3 wood off the tee.  

[Michael Dugger]

Thanks Huck,

Based on pictures I've seen it sure seems getting out of that greenside bunker on #14 is doable.  On the other hand if I got in the massive bunker on #6, which I didn't, I would imagine I would have to chip out sideways back to the fairway.

Man I really need to get back to Bandon!!  

I got up and down from the bottom of the greenside bunker on #6 at PD.  About the greatest shot I've ever hit.  Knocked it to 4 ft.  Slag saw it.

I've also seen people get up and down on BT 14.

I am kinda with Wigs on this matter, however.  Into the wind #14 at BT is kinda lame.  You will not hold the hill.  You will be at the bottom.

Yippee!  It is lame.

[Tom Huckaby]

But into the wind you have a MUCH better chance of holding the green... wind will hold the approach up and allow for more backspin....

I find that to be part of the coolness of the hole.  Downwind it's way easier to get close to the green, but the green is way harder to hit and hold... reverse into the wind... OK, so a lot of golf holes are like that, but very few have the stakes as high as this one for what the wind does.

[Pete Lavallee]

Is it possible to hold the hill on the top left if your tee shot is moving right to left?

[Tom Huckaby]

Is it possible to hold the hill on the top left if your tee shot is moving right to left?

That helps... but it's normally so firm and fast that a ball won't stay on the side of the slope.  Or at least that's been my experience.  You have to get it up closer to the green where it's flatter.

TH

[Pete Lavallee]

That helps... but it's normally so firm and fast that a ball won't stay on the side of the slope.  Or at least that's been my experience.  You have to get it up closer to the green where it's flatter.

TH

Tom,

From what I've heard, your draw is a ball that only fades a little. I want to hear what a hooker has to say about holding the slope.

[Tom Huckaby]

Pete:

You have obviously not played with me in way too long, or have heard the wrong things.  At one point I did most shots left to right but it has been MANY years since that's been the case.  Right to left is my normal tee shot now, has been for several years.

Ask Benham or Pieracci or others who have played with me recent years....

TH

[Marty Bonnar]

Ask Benham or Pieracci or others who have played with me recent years....

TH

I can only recall slightly long and slightly straight!!! Esp on those long upwind Shore Course holes. Having said that, the other Mr H is no slouch either!

 
FBD.

[Tom Huckaby]

Well now thank you, Martin. Heck at one point I would have glady worn the left to right badge with honor... It's just not the case, hasn't been for a long time.  In some ways I miss it... I can't seem to hit the "power fade" any more even if I try.. and that is a useful shot.

But now back to Bandon Trails....

 

[Marty Bonnar]

But now back to Bandon Trails....

 

Just as soon as a good friend moves there...

FBD.

[Tom Huckaby]

But now back to Bandon Trails....

 

Just as soon as a good friend moves there...

FBD.

Hell of an idea... we do need a local up there...
 

[Marty Bonnar]

It quite probably WILL be happening............

FBD.

[Tom Huckaby]

It quite probably WILL be happening............

FBD.

Oh me, oh my.  That will be interesting.

[Jason Topp]

I am undecided on the 14th.  I played it into the wind and it played much more reasonably (although still tough). It was just a wedge to the middle of the green.  Nonetheless, everyone else in my group hockeyed it around the green both times.

In my view, however, even if 14 is a miserable hole, I think Bandon Trails is as good if not better than the other 2 courses.  

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