East Lake's Bentgrass Greens

« **Reply #50 on:** September 10, 2007, 03:04:07 PM »

Quote from: Kalen Braley on September 10, 2007, 03:01:41 PM

Thanks for posting that link Ken.

I guess I was expecting to see worse than that, but then again pics and seeing them in person can offer differ greatly. I've played on greens with massive 100 sq ft areas that were completly devoid of grass...

Hope they are ready to go by Thursday...

Of course the greens are not that bad. This is a perfect example of a media blitz supporting the need to replace grass or spend money to fight heat and invoke change. It is a tragedy happening all over the country.

« **Reply #51 on:** September 10, 2007, 03:11:37 PM »

In fact the media hype was so effective that EL cancelled the pro-am, all practice rounds and a couple of clinics with some of the neighborhood kids.

We all know better. The greens are really just fine.

Bob

« **Reply #52 on:** September 10, 2007, 03:32:08 PM »

Bob,

You wondered why the greens are dead at East Lake but not at other Alanta Clubs. It is quite simple...The super at EL requested fans and was shot down...The super wanted to change out grasses and the membership balked. What a super wants a super gets...or else. The great thing about this process is that the super comes out looking like the genius while the protesting GM and members are out of work, money and a place to play.

« **Reply #53 on:** September 10, 2007, 03:36:40 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on September 10, 2007, 03:32:08 PM

Bob,

You wondered why the greens are dead at East Lake but not at other Alanta Clubs. It is quite simple...The super at EL requested fans and was shot down...The super wanted to change out grasses and the membership balked. What a super wants a super gets...or else. The great thing about this process is that the super comes out looking like the genius while the protesting GM and members are out of work, money and a place to play.

Did the Captain of the Titanic look like a genius when he asked for more life boats? Nope, he went down with the ship...

« **Reply #54 on:** September 10, 2007, 03:37:58 PM »

Geoff Shackleford.com links an article explaining how this is really the GM's and stupid members faults.

« **Reply #55 on:** September 10, 2007, 03:39:55 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on September 10, 2007, 03:32:08 PM

Bob,

You wondered why the greens are dead at East Lake but not at other Alanta Clubs. It is quite simple...The super at EL requested fans and was shot down...The super wanted to change out grasses and the membership balked. What a super wants a super gets...or else. The great thing about this process is that the super comes out looking like the genius while the protesting GM and members are out of work, money and a place to play.

So you're saying the Super intentionally sabotaged the Tour Championship so that he could get fans installed, and that out of that the GM will lose his job but the Super will not?

Interesting...

« **Reply #56 on:** September 10, 2007, 03:46:09 PM »

Quote from: BCrosby on September 10, 2007, 02:52:10 PM

The other thing to note here is that EL's greens are all USGA specs. They are, however, the only greens I know of in the ATL area that had so much trouble this summer. That does not prove that USGA specs were the problem. It does make you wonder whether the extra money you pay for USGA specs is worth it.

I am convinced now more than ever that USGA Greens are sold for the primary purpose of getting an architect off the hook when things go bad.

« **Reply #57 on:** September 10, 2007, 03:49:39 PM »

I am saying that once you lose faith in grass growing it will die. This is not an intentional act as you imply. I am also saying that the super will survive this episode but the GM will not. The GM did not have the expertise to shoot down the fan request...He is the goat here, and let's face it, easiest to replace.

« **Reply #58 on:** September 10, 2007, 04:43:19 PM »

Brilliant! Faith-based maintenance practices.

All they needed was a government grant.

« **Reply #59 on:** September 10, 2007, 04:57:41 PM »

The Golf Channel is reporting that the Tour said the heat plus no rain is the reason for the loss of the greens. It was my understanding that so long as there is adequate water available to be applied to the greens that rainfall is not necessary - I don't pretend to have much knowledge in this area - is there a Super out there who can say yes or no to this proposition. Am I putting this too simplisticly?

« **Reply #60 on:** September 10, 2007, 05:06:38 PM »

Quote from: Gary Daughters on September 10, 2007, 04:43:19 PM

Brilliant! Faith-based maintenance practices.

All they needed was a government grant.

I have learned that if an employee tells you that you have to have a piece of equipment or his project will fail you have two choices...either buy the equipment or get a new employee. I think the same goes for supers and grass. If they tell you that if you do not buy what they want or the greens will die, two choices. Greens are far too delicate to survive if the person in their care loses faith.

« **Reply #61 on:** September 10, 2007, 05:08:21 PM »

one interesting tidbit to go along with all the opinions...ELake is a corporate club.....95% of the memberships are corporate....so play day in and day out is not a lot....I believe each corporate member is allotted a certain number of foursomes.....shutting down the course for new green installation is not that big of a deal......there is still more to come with this story though...the real goats have not yet been revealed

« **Reply #62 on:** September 10, 2007, 05:13:18 PM »

I don't think it is that simple. Maybe the members of East Lake like having bent grass greens. Maybe they are sick of being the testy pooh of the region. Maybe they would like a little stability.

« **Reply #63 on:** September 10, 2007, 06:12:49 PM »

Good news though...

It appears all but 3 will be open tommorow and Wednsday. Are they really better or did Tiger pull a few strings??

http://www.pgatour.com/2007/tournaments/r060/09/10/greens/index.html

« **Reply #64 on:** September 10, 2007, 07:37:19 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on September 10, 2007, 03:32:08 PM

Bob,

You wondered why the greens are dead at East Lake but not at other Alanta Clubs. It is quite simple...The super at EL requested fans and was shot down...The super wanted to change out grasses and the membership balked. What a super wants a super gets...or else.

John,
Is that why Dan at Vic National has fans on the greens? Werent' you raising hell 2 weeks ago about this? I could have only helped, right?

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

« **Reply #65 on:** September 10, 2007, 08:28:46 PM »

Quote from: Anthony_Nysse on September 10, 2007, 07:37:19 PM

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on September 10, 2007, 03:32:08 PM
Bob,

You wondered why the greens are dead at East Lake but not at other Alanta Clubs. It is quite simple...The super at EL requested fans and was shot down...The super wanted to change out grasses and the membership balked. What a super wants a super gets...or else.
John,
Is that why Dan at Vic National has fans on the greens? Werent' you raising hell 2 weeks ago about this? I could have only helped, right?

Tony Nysse
Sr. Asst. Supt.
Long Cove Club
HHI, SC

Could be considering that now the greens that he didn't get to put fans on are now dying and every email he sends out to the membership shoves the fact right up my ass that he was right and I was wrong.

« **Reply #66 on:** September 10, 2007, 09:20:49 PM »

Quote from: John_Cullum on September 10, 2007, 03:46:09 PM

Quote from: BCrosby on September 10, 2007, 02:52:10 PM
The other thing to note here is that EL's greens are all USGA specs. They are, however, the only greens I know of in the ATL area that had so much trouble this summer. That does not prove that USGA specs were the problem. It does make you wonder whether the extra money you pay for USGA specs is worth it.

I am convinced now more than ever that USGA Greens are sold for the primary purpose of getting an architect off the hook when things go bad.

agree

« **Reply #67 on:** September 10, 2007, 09:52:44 PM »

I just read Geoff site and the article by ATL photographer Rob Matre.... he says....
"The greens are bare around the edges, and perhaps a little bumpy in some places in the middle. Obviously I couldn't walk on them, but some of them looked fairly smooth, and #8 looks like it could be the most damaged, probably because it sits high with no shade and is very exposed to the sun. "
I know Rob but the comments above say he doesnt know much about sunlight, air movement or shade issues with greens.....AND I don't know if EL will be inviting him back to a photo shoot anytime soon.....

I bet you the greens at EL are back to perfect by mid OCT and i bet they start aerifying Sunday nite.....

« **Reply #68 on:** September 10, 2007, 10:09:22 PM »

Whenever a golf course has agronomic problems the very first order of business seems to be to find somebody to blame. It looks like EL's GM was in the right place at the right time to inherit that responsibility this time.

I'm not sure that's appropriate, however. Why not just blame it on the USGA like everyone seems to these days?

Oh, did you say the USGA doesn't have anything to do with the FedEx Cup and this tournament at EL?

Don't bother me with trivial details. Those failed greens must be the fault of the USGA somehow.

« **Reply #69 on:** September 10, 2007, 10:46:39 PM »

Does anyone know how the bentgrass tee boxes at Hawks Ridge (a little north of Atlanta) are holding up?

« **Reply #70 on:** September 11, 2007, 08:43:25 AM »

Paul,

I was out there within the last month and I saw no problems with the greens, errrr tee boxes at Hawks Ridge. Talk about a course where you could hold a reverse tourney....those tees put some private clubs' greens in the south to shame

« **Reply #71 on:** September 11, 2007, 09:40:24 AM »

In EL's defense, Hawks Ridge is up in Ball Ground, GA on the edge of the metro area. I'd guess that HR is at a significantly higher elevation than EL, and is certainly away from the "heat effect" of downtown Atlanta. Also, though I have no way of confirming this, I would guess that the number of rounds at Hawks Ridge is well below that of EL. My one round at HR was on a beautiful summer day, and there were SIX other people on the golf course. I think it is busier now, but still pretty quiet by comparison.

« **Reply #72 on:** September 12, 2007, 08:19:07 AM »

Much better news this morning in the media; player comments, etc., that the greens will be bumpy and thin but o.k. General feeling seemed to be that the players were conditioned to come in expecting a disaster, and that the reality would be much, much better.

« **Reply #73 on:** September 12, 2007, 08:21:09 AM »

Quote from: A.G._Crockett on September 12, 2007, 08:19:07 AM

Much better news this morning in the media; player comments, etc., that the greens will be bumpy and thin but o.k. General feeling seemed to be that the players were conditioned to come in expecting a disaster, and that the reality would be much, much better.

Once again I am proven right about something I know nothing about. This was nothing but a chemical/grass company media blitz started and fueled by the need to sell supers more crap.

« **Reply #74 on:** September 12, 2007, 08:34:12 AM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on September 12, 2007, 08:21:09 AM

Quote from: A.G._Crockett on September 12, 2007, 08:19:07 AM
Much better news this morning in the media; player comments, etc., that the greens will be bumpy and thin but o.k. General feeling seemed to be that the players were conditioned to come in expecting a disaster, and that the reality would be much, much better.

Once again I am proven right about something I know nothing about. This was nothing but a chemical/grass company media blitz started and fueled by the need to sell supers more crap.

JohnK, this is a great post! Too funny. O.K., a couple of small leaps of logic shouldn't hurt anyone, should they?

News:

John Kavanaugh

BCrosby

John Kavanaugh

JESII

John Kavanaugh

A.G._Crockett

John_Cullum

John Kavanaugh

Gary Daughters

Jerry Kluger

John Kavanaugh

Michael Christensen

John Kavanaugh

Kalen Braley

Anthony_Nysse

John Kavanaugh

Mike_Young

Mike_Young

TEPaul

Paul Jones

Michael Christensen

A.G._Crockett

A.G._Crockett

John Kavanaugh

A.G._Crockett