The Golf Digest Top 100 List is now posted

« **Reply #50 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:00:04 PM »

[quote author=NA Freeman link=board=1;threadid=28533;start=0#msg549125 date=1175094032

Any list of this magnitude that doesnt have the Kingsley Club on it, I'm sorry it is vastly wanting.

Quote

Naffer, Dr. C:

Whats your order of preference: Kingsley, Boston Golf Club and Galloway National?

Perhaps a more difficult question: Kingsley or Prairie Dunes?

« **Reply #51 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:02:38 PM »

Hammy:

Heck, these guys just call me out because they know me - it's just friends busting balls, as Mike Cirba said.

But as for breaking any protocol, no I don't think it would be such... only I can't help you as I certainly have never compiled any personal Top 100, nor does Golf Digest require us to. Remember all we do is give numerical values to the very specific criteria asked for - which are listed on the GD site, in a link next to Whitten's article.

I'm happy to discuss my personal ratings of any course... but it's just going to be from memory, as I don't keep a record of my submissions! I also haven't been to all that many courses in the last two years.

TH

ps to Jason Topp - the ommissions of Wild Horse - and Rustic Canyon - did bum me out... and it sure as hell wasn't my fault in either case.

« **Reply #52 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:13:35 PM »

Quote from: Richard Farnsworth Goodale on March 28, 2007, 11:53:32 AM

Thanks, Adam

But say something more meaningful, please, i.e. because..........

More meaningful? What is more meaningful? Ebb? Flow? Drainage? Walkability? Reliance on trees in deciding where the cart path goes? Tuna recipe? Tradition? Variety?

I'd be happy to elaborate on which course surpasses which in as many categories as you'd like.

P/s/ Is that your real middle name or is it a reference to "Here Comes Mr. Jordan"?

« **Reply #53 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:28:02 PM »

I have always loved Lost Dunes and am glad to see it getting some recognition. However, jumping from being unrated to #63 is a little more than I would have expected.

« **Reply #54 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:32:50 PM »

Shinnecock Hills is now only one spot below its proper ranking. They are doing something right

Can anyone explain why the difference between the first 10 courses is so much greater than any other group of 10? I don't understand why the remainder of the top 100 are so close together in an almost meaningless differential. Here are the differences in score between the top and bottom courses in each grouping of ten:

First 10: 5.63
Second 10: .99
Third 10: .70
Fourth 10: .83
Fifth 10: .76
Sixth 10: .29
Seventh 10: .55
Eighth 10: .26
Ninth 10: .15
Tenth 10: .31

The methodology cannot end up being significant out to these decimal places.

« **Reply #55 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:35:56 PM »

Quote from: Brian Joines on March 28, 2007, 02:28:02 PM

I have always loved Lost Dunes and am glad to see it getting some recognition. However, jumping from being unrated to #63 is a little more than I would have expected.

There are a minimum number of raters who need to see a course (40 for GD I believe) before it can be rated. Therefore, it could always have been in that range, but just hit the minimum so that it could be added to the list.

« **Reply #56 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:37:39 PM »

Quote from: Adam Clayman

P/s/ Is that your real middle name or is it a reference to "Here Comes Mr. Jordan"?
[quote

Adam, that was a much better picture than the modern remake "Heaven Can Wait". Not only does it have the always superb Claude Rains, but the charmingly lumpish Robert Montgomery is much better, IMHO, than Warren Beatty.

Just because this is a ratings thread....

Peter

« **Reply #57 on:** March 28, 2007, 02:52:27 PM »

Sorry if I missed but what 6 courses dropped off the list?

« **Reply #58 on:** March 28, 2007, 03:03:37 PM »

All you guys who bitch about Riviera being too low are the same guys who spread the false rumors about the course. If you don't say them yourself you give them credence by never challenging such falsehoods as:

Fazio destroyed the course.
The bunker work somehow changed the strategy for the worse.
The bunkers are ugly.
The membership is too large and the course does too many rounds.
The Kik is a poor playing surface.

All the above are lies with the possible exception in your taste in bunker shapes. I have said before that it may very well be the best course in the country as it is the best place I have ever played....but..I may be biased because I also think LA is the best city in the country...and two...I go by what I see and not by what a seer tells me.

I also appear to be wrong about my prediction of The Alotian...Can't believe they didn't get enough raters to qualify and I was also just recently assuring someone that Sycamore Hills was toast. I do like that GD didn't cop out with the Sand Ridge name change like GW and btw...Fazio owns a larger part of GW then GD. Fazio could wipe his ass on a piece of ground like a dog with a bad itch and it would be a Golfweek Top 100 Modern.

« **Reply #59 on:** March 28, 2007, 03:08:34 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on March 28, 2007, 03:03:37 PM

Fazio could wipe his ass on a piece of ground like a dog with a bad itch and it would be a Golfweek Top 100 Modern.

Grandiloquence personified!

« **Reply #60 on:** March 28, 2007, 04:02:08 PM »

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Crooked Stick falling off the list (where is Glenn Spencer?!). Interesting swap of CS for Sycamore Hills. I'd have a hard time picking between the two of them personally.

I really like Tullymore FWIW. I've played it twice, once well and other poorly. Its got a lot of really good holes that make you think and some good risk/reward situations. Would I personally put it in the top 100? Yes. Am I still surprised that it made it? Yes again.

« **Reply #61 on:** March 28, 2007, 04:05:07 PM »

The State lists are still not updated...I want to see if Crooked Stick is still ahead of Wolf Run. Please note that Golfweek allows raters who are members of a club to vote on their own club...not that there is anything wrong with that or that I am implying anything by bringing it up in this context.

« **Reply #62 on:** March 28, 2007, 04:15:28 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on March 28, 2007, 04:05:07 PM

The State lists are still not updated...I want to see if Crooked Stick is still ahead of Wolf Run. Please note that Golfweek allows raters who are members of a club to vote on their own club...not that there is anything wrong with that or that I am implying anything by bringing it up in this context.

I'm interested in seeing that as well. Wolf Run is my favorite of the three personally.

« **Reply #63 on:** March 28, 2007, 04:36:40 PM »

I just got back from New York and saw this thread. As a GD guy, I have no clue why Five Farms is not on the list. None. As for some of the other questions, I can't believe Kingsley isn't there as well, I absolutely loved that place and I know a lot of other GD guys did too so I am baffled.

Wade Hampton is awesome and deserves it spot on the list. I thought it was plenty walkable and was firm and fast when I played it.

Pete Dye also baffles me. I loved the place, but my fellow GD guys put it near the bottom of the top 100 (which is still pretty darn good).

As for Friars Head, you need 35 raters to see a course before it can be included so my guess is not enough saw it. You only need 10 for Best New stuff, but 35 for Top 100.

As for Oakmont, it was my #1 rated course and I played all of the biggies except Augusta. I played Riviera too and thought it was top 30 easy so I was a little shocked at how low it was.

My favorite course is still Cypress Point with NGLA close behind, but they don't receive some of the points Oakmont gets so they are not as high on the rankings.

« **Reply #64 on:** March 28, 2007, 04:46:24 PM »

Oh yeah, I know JK won't stick up for it, but I loved Victoria National and think it falls pretty close to where it should. It is a pain in the butt to get to, but I would play it everyday if I could.

« **Reply #65 on:** March 28, 2007, 05:05:08 PM »

Quote from: Jim Franklin on March 28, 2007, 04:46:24 PM

Oh yeah, I know JK won't stick up for it, but I loved Victoria National and think it falls pretty close to where it should. It is a pain in the butt to get to, but I would play it everyday if I could.

Jim, I wasn't questioning whether Victoria belonged, since I've never played it, but even John I think would question Riviera's place in relation to Victoria. I'm sure Victoria has it's place on the list, but I see a few courses besides Riviera that should probably be ranked ahead of Victoria and BCC may be one of them. Mind you, my opinion means very little since I have not played most of these courses.

I also find Whitten comments curious. He wraps up the article and says that if clubs aren't improving that they are not moving. Well, some improved and did not move (up that is). Engineer's, Yale, Eastward Ho! and Brookside, all of which I've heard rave reviews and nowhere on the radar. NGLA made improvements and actually went down the list. This is probably due to these clubs not being visited enough, which would also explain Friar's Head and Sebonack. And I can't believe Rustic is gone form the list. And I agree with a earlier comment, Pasatimepo is way too low.

« **Reply #66 on:** March 28, 2007, 05:20:52 PM »

Thanks David. I actually ranked Victoria National ahead of Riviera, but it was extremely close. I ranked BCC behind both of them, but that may change with the changes we made over the winter. I know I will probably be called out for ranking VN ahead of Riviera, but until you play it then reserve judgement. I know this site is into Fazio bashing and rightfully so (sometimes), but VN is a special place and a really terrific course.

« **Reply #67 on:** March 28, 2007, 05:25:09 PM »

Quote from: David Stamm on March 28, 2007, 05:05:08 PM

Quote from: Jim Franklin on March 28, 2007, 04:46:24 PM
Oh yeah, I know JK won't stick up for it, but I loved Victoria National and think it falls pretty close to where it should. It is a pain in the butt to get to, but I would play it everyday if I could.

Jim, I wasn't questioning whether Victoria belonged, since I've never played it, but even John I think would question Riviera's place in relation to Victoria. I'm sure Victoria has it's place on the list, but I see a few courses besides Riviera that should probably be ranked ahead of Victoria and BCC may be one of them. Mind you, my opinion means very little since I have not played most of these courses.

I also find Whitten comments curious. He wraps up the article and says that if clubs aren't improving that they are not moving. Well, some improved and did not move (up that is). Engineer's, Yale, Eastward Ho! and Brookside, all of which I've heard rave reviews and nowhere on the radar. NGLA made improvements and actually went down the list. This is probably due to these clubs not being visited enough, which would also explain Friar's Head and Sebonack. And I can't believe Rustic is gone form the list. And I agree with a earlier comment, Pasatimepo is way too low.

David,

I am a little dissapointed that Pacific Dunes jumped ahead of VN in the recent ranking (Pacific Dunes was one spot behind VN in 05)...The only other course ranked higher than VN that I have played is Pinehurst no. 2 which despite their recent false advertising in an attempt to goad me into returning is I believe a superior course. Funny that the only courses I have ever played that are ranked higher than where I play are public courses which disqualifies them from places I would want to play on a regular basis. (Hammy told me to say that)

« **Reply #68 on:** March 28, 2007, 06:54:54 PM »

Quote from: JKBlasberg on March 28, 2007, 02:00:04 PM

[quote author=NA Freeman link=board=1;threadid=28533;start=0#msg549125 date=1175094032

Any list of this magnitude that doesnt have the Kingsley Club on it, I'm sorry it is vastly wanting.
Quote

Naffer, Dr. C:

Whats your order of preference: Kingsley, Boston Golf Club and Galloway National?

Perhaps a more difficult question: Kingsley or Prairie Dunes?

Jason

I personally think that The Kingsley Club is a masterpiece that is way underappreciated. The front nine is as good as ANY 9 holes built in the last 50 years and the back has some additional world class holes as well and the others from pictures look to be improved by the new work.

As you know, I really loved Boston Golf Club too but IMHO it is not at the same level as TKC.

Galloway National is another wonderful golf course and one of my favorite Fazio designs but as good as it is it is in thord place among these three.

As for Prairie Dunes vs TKC that you can even suggest the comparison and that I need to think hard about it speaks worlds for TKC. I need more time to develop a good answer to the comparison between PD and TKC. It may seem obvious to some but it is not to me.

« **Reply #69 on:** March 28, 2007, 07:06:33 PM »

Quote from: Jeff Doerr on March 28, 2007, 11:00:54 AM

Tom,

As I am still a newbie to the board, would it be possible to summarize the differences between the panels?

Thanks, Jeff

Golf Digest = Microsoft
GolfWeek = Apple

« **Reply #70 on:** March 28, 2007, 07:39:54 PM »

I'm not much of a fan of magazine ranking lists but I gotta admit I love that top 10 above.

I think they dropped the ball on Riviera, though, and they completely dropped the ball on Aronimink.

« **Reply #71 on:** March 28, 2007, 07:51:49 PM »

Outside of Riviera, the biggest head scratcher to me is Medinah.

« **Reply #72 on:** March 28, 2007, 08:01:35 PM »

I just realized that Wannamoisett is not on the list either

In my opinion, this par 69 Donald Ross masterpiece is the equal of any of his other golf courses and has the most varied set of greens done by Ross that I am familiar with. That includes #2, Seminole, Plainfield and Aronimink. WOW did they miss the boat again (IMHO for what its worth).

« **Reply #73 on:** March 28, 2007, 08:16:56 PM »

I was pretty surprised by how few courses were dropped and how few courses made it. I would have thought the following would have made it, alphabetical only:

Alotian
Ballyneal
Bayonne
Black Rock
Black Mesa
Friar's Head
Lakota Canyon
Kingsley
Kapalua Plantation
Quarry at Giants Ridge
Eastward Ho
Myopia Hunt
Paa Ko Ridge
Royal New Kent
Tobacco Road
Redlands Mesa
Yale

That's 17 courses which would have been comparable to 2 years ago.

« **Reply #74 on:** March 28, 2007, 08:30:12 PM »

Tullymore.....hahahahahahahahahahahaha.....

News:

Jason Blasberg

Tom Huckaby

Adam Clayman

Brian Joines

wsmorrison

JohnV

Peter Pallotta

Nick Pozaric

John Kavanaugh

tlavin

Andy Troeger

John Kavanaugh

Andy Troeger

Jim Franklin

Jim Franklin

David Stamm

Jim Franklin

John Kavanaugh

Geoffrey Childs

Mike McGuire

TEPaul

Kalen Braley

Geoffrey Childs

cary lichtenstein

Jonathan McCord