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Jack_Marr

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Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2005, 09:39:46 AM »
Another hidden gem is Arklow in Wicklow, although there are a few average holes there. Links course, great pleasure to play.

Strandhill in Sligo is another one.
John Marr(inan)

Jack_Marr

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Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2005, 06:13:44 PM »


John Marr(inan)

Mike_Trenham

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Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #52 on: January 07, 2005, 09:36:51 PM »
In the summer of 2001 I had the pleasure to play the O'Haire course at St. Patricks and walk the Hacket Course.  My friend and former roommate and I were the guest of his cousin Dermot the owner of the hotel and course.  

In the AM we played the smaller course and then walked the bigger course as it was closed because they had lost the greens the prior summer.  After we played we went back to the hotel and Dermot's two lovely daughters served us lunch.  We probably spent 2 hours over lunch discussing the course and how it had evolved and trying to advise Dermot on what he should do with the course.  We were completely taken by the place and how much potential was there.  Many a Friday night Manus and I would joke that we should move to Carrigart and manage St. Patricks for Dermot and I could marry one of his daughters.  Talk about quality of life.  Here's what I can remember and add.

Dermot appears to have zero desire to sell the course or involve investors, he belives he has something very unique.  It appears that he owned the land and his investment in the course has been financed by his hotel profits.  It did not appear that he had gotten himself deep in debt.

He is not a golfer and he does not want to lose control of the golf course so as of 2001 he had never had a properly trained green staff.

Dermot seemed overly concerned that the rough was overly thick as he had lot of complaints from German golfers that had lost too many balls.  We told him to f the germans and their lost balls and spend all of his money on getting the greens improved (they were awful on both courses).  The conditions of the greens were so bad you could not play the course.  We emphatically told him to find a young man that is well trained agressive and wants to make a name for himself to be his green superintendent!

Hacket moved very little earth and Dermot described how they cut the sod out smoothed the ground a bit and replaced the turf.

There was hardly a sand bunker on the Hacket course.  We inquired if this was from a lack of money and he explained it was Hackett's opinion that the course did not need bunkers due to the quality of the land.

The course lacks the consistent access to over the top views you get on many Irish links.  It plays up a hill out towards a bay and then heads back down the hill inland and loops back towards the bay then a dramatically uphill and contraversal 17th gets you back up on top of the dunes from where you play a dramatic downhill 18th.

17 is about 200 yards straight uphill with hardly even a false front (played the entire way over the german ball eating rough), mosly blind to a very shallow green.  An easy par 5.  Almost makes you ponder reversing the entire routing as a mean to eliminate this hole.

On the O'Haire course we actually missed a few holes as it is not marked well.  Too short a course jammed into a way above average piece of land.  Unfortunate that they did not opt for 9 holes.  This course touches one of the courses at Rosapenna (sp?).

Also on this trip I met Sky in the clubhouse at Nairne & Port Noo.  Learned he was bootstrapping his way around GB&I for the summer and that he too was a fan of this site.  Have never seen a person so happy too be offered a pint.
Proud member of a Doak 3.

Bill Gayne

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Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #53 on: January 09, 2005, 01:20:46 PM »
Below are excerpts from an article about a Ryder Cup celebration for Paul Maginley posted on the Irish Independent Website. The entire article is at www.unison.ie

The portions that I cut and paste are about a proposed golf project across the way from Saint Patricks on links land. It's indicative of the planning problems that some of these projects are having after the Special Area Conservation (SAC) regulations went into effect in 1997. The people that laid out Saint Patricks in 1996 prior to the new regulations were very fortunate.



"...An edge then entered the exchanges when Collins said: "You were involved in a golf-course design project here in Donegal. A course which you felt had great potential." "Yes," came the reply. "It is one of the most magnificent pieces of land I've ever seen and it was going to be my first design project. I turned down three or four more lucrative offers so as to do this one, but it looks as if it won't work out."

There was enthusiastic applause when he added: "Though it doesn't seem to be the case in Ireland, I would argue that a golf course is far more environmentally friendly than houses. I believe land can look far more attractive with a golf course on it." More applause.

But if there was so much support for the project, why wasn't it going to happen?...

Five Donegalmen, including Michael McGinley, bought the 200-acre site back in September 1997. At a projected cost of around £10 million, their plan was to build a golf-course development which would provide a badly-needed economic lift, with 100 jobs in the blackest employment spot in the country.

Driving down "Magnolia Lane" , it wasn't difficult to appreciate how golfing men could be drawn to this site. Even a bleak January day couldn't dull the beauty of a slender finger of duneland, jutting into Sheephaven Bay, with Rosapenna and the towering dunes of St Patrick's links to the north east and Muckish Mountain to the south west.

"Isn't that a fantastic sight," said the prospective architect, looking from gorse-covered heathland out to pure linksland sweeping into the wild Atlantic. "Every time I come to Donegal, I can't resist a trip out here, sometimes with my dog, to take in the wonderful potential of the area. Look how majestic it is. And down there, the Lacah is one of the best salmon rivers in the country."

The previous evening, he had been presented with a painting of a local scene, dominated by Muckish. "The scenery is spectacular, especially for housing from the seashore up to here," he enthused. "I have mental pictures of holes where, on half-blind drives, the line of the shot is provided by the peak of Muckish. And other lines by that mountainside cottage.

"Kerry has been such a successful tourist destination because of the variety of courses it has to offer. That's what we need here in Donegal. Our plan would perfectly complement Ronapenna which, incidentally, is one of my favourite courses. I wanted to design a layout attractive to play, leaving visitors wanting to come back. Just like Baltray (where he won the Irish Professional Championship with a record aggregate).

"On the advise of Des Smyth, I was going to bring Declan Branigan on board. I love what he's done at Seapoint, which is also a mixture of heathland and links.

"Too many people, in my view, are building courses for the likes of me, tournament professionals who represent point zero zero one of the golfing population. I would be looking at a player-friendly stretch where people wouldn't feel intimidated. And I was all set to promote it, any way I could. I even spoke about it to the Taoiseach."

He added: "It would have meant being able to do something for the local community and what's happened here has been very frustrating. A great pity."

So, what precisely had happened?

Denis Boyce, a retired schoolteacher and one of the five shareholders, explained their experience. "Not long after we bought the site, it was designated as a Special Area of Conservation (SAC)," he said. "Still, we remained optimistic about getting planning permission when we hired a firm of Dublin-based consultants and did an environmental impact study.

"It would have been self-financing, but when our consultants met with representatives of Duchas, they were advised that building a course on this site would never be a runner. We then went through an appeals process, challenging the designation of the land as a proposed SAC and were turned down."

'We just got sick and tired of going over the same business, again and again'

Duchas was an advisory body set up by the former Department of Arts, Heritage, Gaeltacht and The Islands to deal with heritage matters. They had to be consulted by local authorities on planning matters which, apparently, was done by Donegal County Council. In the event, Duchas no longer exists and its function has been absorbed into the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government.

Meanwhile, there is an EU regulation covering SACs, National Heritage Areas (NHA) and Special Protected Areas (SPA). My information is that none of these designations precludes development, as can be seen from on-going golf projects - both links and parkland - in Scotland and in Continental Europe, notably Spain. It should also be noted that such designations by the EU would be based on information provided by member countries: there is no all-seeing environmental guru in Brussells capable of making such decisions.

Meanwhile, experts from UCD and the University of Ulster, assured the group that there was nothing environmentally special about the area. Still, in the belief that there was no point in applying for planning permission for the entire site to Donegal County Council, Boyce and his colleagues sought planning on about half of it, which is largely heathland. Outline permission on this area of about 100 acres, was granted.

"This would have limited us to a nine-hole course but we felt it was worth making the application as a stepping stone to what we really wanted," said Boyce. "Then, despite amending the design plans three or four times so as to avoid sensitive areas like primary dunes, we were repeatedly told we would fail if we tried to get planning for 18 holes.

"That was two years ago and eventually, in utter frustration, we put the entire site up for sale. We just got sick and tired of going over the same business, again and again."

SO the project is effectively dead, then? "Not necessarily," Boyce replied when I spoke with him again on Friday. "What's happened here over the last few days has caused us to think again. We're really impressed by Paul's sustained interest and after his Ryder Cup exploits in Detroit, his profile is now higher than ever.

"He has already done great work in promoting Donegal, so we owe it to him and to ourselves to go back to the County Council, this time with a planning application for the full site."

McGinley's Christmas holiday in Donegal with his wife, Allison, and their three children was at an end. Having viewed Wednesday's function as a great honour, he didn't expect any other New Year gifts. But he may yet land the great prize of designing his first golf course in Ireland in an area very dear to his heart.

"From what the lads are saying, it looks like we could still make it happen," he said. "Wouldn't that be a really wonderful way for me to say 'Thank you', for how I was received there on Wednesday night." Indeed it would. He might even be forgiven for not playing Gaelic football for Donegal."

 
 
 

 
 
 

« Last Edit: January 09, 2005, 01:24:30 PM by Bill Gayne »

Steve Curry

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Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2005, 06:32:28 AM »
I thought this would be a great post to revive today.

 ;)

My favorite holiday.

James Bennett

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2005, 05:17:52 PM »
Steve

had a Guinnes for Breakfast this morning.  It was a day late down under, but it was still 9.30 pm on St Pats Day in Dublin, so I thought that was ok.  Lovely, even with the gas widget.  To be sure, to be sure. :)
Bob; its impossible to explain some of the clutter that gets recalled from the attic between my ears. .  (SL Solow)

Mark Brown

Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2005, 08:09:17 PM »
It's not totally unknown but you sure have to go out of your way (by plane or boat) to get there.
The Machrie: with about 10 blind greens and all the Scotch  you can drink, as there's peat bogs all around it.

The first morning I went out and was alone, and I mean alone with some sheep and a breeze, and took 3 clubs (3-wood,
6 iron, sand wedge and putter (I putt left-handed) and, sight unseen, with 10 blind greens, and some mysterious way, shot 78, which at the time matched my handicap (it hasn't gone down any since. Half the time I didn't know what was over the next dune, and one time I swear I saw Shivas. I figured I might as well quit while I was ahead and our next stop was Macrahanish. How I long to return.

Yancey_Beamer

Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2005, 09:31:05 PM »
Emereld Gems ,The Links of Ireland
Photographs by Laurence Casey Lambrecht
Pages 150-152 has an excellent description of the course.
 and beautiful photos.
This book is available from the photographer and
"In Celebration Of Golf "in Las Vegas and Pheonix.

Steve Curry

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #58 on: March 17, 2006, 07:59:25 AM »
Tradition, ya know ;)

ForkaB

Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #59 on: March 17, 2006, 08:19:44 AM »
Thanks for bringing this up, Steve!

Just remembered that one of my locals is having live Irish music until all hours in the morning.  Must go and get a seat now!

BCrosby

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #60 on: March 17, 2006, 08:47:41 AM »
Dan Kelly -

McPhee has been a hero of mine for a couple of decades. His books on geology literally changed the way I see the world. A remarkable writer with even more remarkable interests. (Have you followed his recent pieces in The New Yorker about the curmudgeon tanker truck driver?)

It is a shame that someone with McPhee's talent chose fly fishing as the sport he wrote about. Golf could have used him.

Why he isn't more  widely known is a mystery to me.

Another hidden gem.

Bob
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 08:50:14 AM by BCrosby »

mike_malone

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #61 on: March 17, 2006, 08:51:30 AM »
 Did you hear about the three Irishmen who walked out of the pub?

   It could happen you know!


                   Michael Dennis Patrick Malone
AKA Mayday

ForkaB

Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #62 on: March 17, 2006, 08:53:07 AM »
PS

It was Sky Summonte (AKA I can't remember) who first brought St Patricks to notice on GCA.  About 3 years ago.

Paul

I know "Sky Surmonte" and where he plies his trade these days, but if I told you any more I'd have to kill you......

Tom Roewer

Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #63 on: March 17, 2006, 08:56:39 AM »
BCrosby    Great to know of a kindred spirit in group.  I was introduced to John Mcphee's work in a creative writing class in college and have read every work.  He is  an amazing writer.  Hopefully you have "The Crofter & The Laird", if not get it.  His next book about transportation comes out in May and I can't wait.  He is a hidden gem.

TEPaul

Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #64 on: March 17, 2006, 09:01:56 AM »
"Did you hear about the three Irishmen who walked out of the pub?

  It could happen you know!


                  Michael Dennis Patrick Malone"

Malone, that really confirms what many of us have always suspected about you----eg you really are an unrealistic dreamer!

TEPaul

Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #65 on: March 17, 2006, 09:03:57 AM »
Interesting to see this thread come back up from the depths of the back pages.

Did I just hear Jim Finegan screaming with delight?

ForkaB

Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #66 on: March 17, 2006, 09:06:50 AM »
Interesting to see this thread come back up from the depths of the back pages.

Did I just hear Jim Finegan screaming with delight?

Tommy

Check out your calendar.

PS--Jim F. might be screaming with something other than delight if he read Paul Turner's post above!

Jack_Marr

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #67 on: March 17, 2006, 09:15:12 AM »
Beannachtaí na feile Padraig. It's no day for golf in Ireland today, so it will have to be something else.

I'll be enjoying a glass or two of Redbreast 15.

Slainte
John Marr(inan)

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #68 on: March 17, 2006, 09:50:19 AM »
No one has ever been able to explain this to me.  

If St Patrick is a bona fide saint, and the day is sanctioned by the church then why is it in the middle of Lent?

Have a great (dry?)  St Patrick's Day ;)
Let's make GCA grate again!

Craig Sweet

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Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #69 on: March 17, 2006, 09:59:40 AM »
Steve Curry, do you remember "Kelly's Irish Alps"....the long ago abandoned Brodie Mountain?

If the weather coporated they made green snow. Regardless, the Irish music was alway authentic and the beer was always green on St. Patricks Day.
We are no longer a country of laws.

Brad Tufts

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Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2006, 10:07:12 AM »
Anyone have an update on how the course is doing re: the Martin Hawtree recommendations and work from 2002 on mentioned on the club's website?  

Looks like a wonderful place to visit, even if the greens roll like your front lawn with anthills on it.
So I jump ship in Hong Kong....

TEPaul

Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #71 on: March 17, 2006, 10:09:15 AM »
"Tommy

PS--Jim F. might be screaming with something other than delight if he read Paul Turner's post above!"

Rich:

Believe me Jim Finegan is a very good man and one with a very accommodating and understanding way about him with these kinds of things. He knows the entire British Isles and its golf exceptionally well having sleuthed around there endlessly for decades and decades looking for all these kinds of things like all courses, inns, pubs and B&Bs etc. That's what he's written about for years. He knows how touchy and nationally pridefully GBers can be over all kinds of things to do with their countries and it doesn't bother him at all. He wouldn't even mind that Paul Turner says those things about him when he doesn't even know him or enough about him to spell his name correctly.  ;)

Paul and Tom MacWood, even though they don't know Jim, have it in for him anyway as they think he dissed their hero, Harry Colt, in his book about the history of Pine Valley. Tom MacWood even thinks there's been a decades long conspiracy in the Greater Philadelphia region to glorify Crump and diss Harry on purpose. Jim certainly didn't mean to diss Harry but did make a mistake about what Harry did at PVGC but I discovered how that happened and I fixed that and Jim is aware of that and admits the error. Harry now has finally gotten his due for exactly what he did at PVGC, and not more or less. Ironically, it's more than Jim gave him but less than some members have assumed for so long. Paul and Tom MacWood would have no way of knowing that, however.  
 
 
« Last Edit: March 17, 2006, 10:15:19 AM by TEPaul »

Tony_Muldoon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #72 on: March 17, 2006, 10:51:44 AM »
Anyone have an update on how the course is doing re: the Martin Hawtree recommendations and work from 2002 on mentioned on the club's website?  



didn't someone post on here recently how Nicklaus was redoing both and they were building a new hotel?
Let's make GCA grate again!

Richard Phinney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #73 on: March 17, 2006, 10:59:40 AM »
Apologies in advance, as I expect this has already been brought to the attention of this phenomenally knowledgable group...but here is the Nicklaus press release about St. Patrick's. As the man says, if you want the best "there's only one man to get."  ???

http://www.nicklaus.com/design/111605.php

By sheer chance, our golf party had a very enjoyable drinking session with the thoroughly charming (and very young) Joanne O'Haire after a round at County Down, well BEFORE I had seen or heard of St. Patricks. She mentioned she was designing a course but I didn't quite believe her. She was an extremely good sport and was happy to analyse our swings after about six guinness in the car park.  (no innuendo intended).

Happy St. Patrick's Day to all.

ForkaB

Re:The world's true HIDDEN gem??
« Reply #74 on: March 17, 2006, 11:16:15 AM »
"Tommy

PS--Jim F. might be screaming with something other than delight if he read Paul Turner's post above!"

Rich:

Believe me Jim Finegan is a very good man and one with a very accommodating and understanding way about him with these kinds of things. He knows the entire British Isles and its golf exceptionally well having sleuthed around there endlessly for decades and decades looking for all these kinds of things like all courses, inns, pubs and B&Bs etc. That's what he's written about for years. He knows how touchy and nationally pridefully GBers can be over all kinds of things to do with their countries and it doesn't bother him at all. He wouldn't even mind that Paul Turner says those things about him when he doesn't even know him or enough about him to spell his name correctly.  ;)

Paul and Tom MacWood, even though they don't know Jim, have it in for him anyway as they think he dissed their hero, Harry Colt, in his book about the history of Pine Valley. Tom MacWood even thinks there's been a decades long conspiracy in the Greater Philadelphia region to glorify Crump and diss Harry on purpose. Jim certainly didn't mean to diss Harry but did make a mistake about what Harry did at PVGC but I discovered how that happened and I fixed that and Jim is aware of that and admits the error. Harry now has finally gotten his due for exactly what he did at PVGC, and not more or less. Ironically, it's more than Jim gave him but less than some members have assumed for so long. Paul and Tom MacWood would have no way of knowing that, however.  


Tom

My point had to do with Paul T's trenchant point that no individual (even Jim Finnegan) has or ever has had as much knowledge about any golf course or groups of golf courses (i.e. Ireland) as the collective intelligence known to us as GCA.  That's all.  Now be a good boy and go have a pint of Guinness, if you can find an Irish pub on the Main Line...... ;)