[Matt_Ward]

David M:

Quit throwing the furniture around the play room.

I never pumped up the volume about the number of courses I have played. I have simply stated what I did. Now puhleeeeze calm down and stop making such a mess of things with all your elaborate word play. I'm going shopping with the family now -- please enjoy yourselves at wherever you play. I know I will. Ta-ta ...

P.S. David -- I rarely "skim things" -- you'd be very surprised at the return visits I make to a number of courses to validate or disprove my original assessments. Oh -- by the way -- thanks for telling me that I miss the "essence" of the game as defined by his royal highness the right honorable David Moriarty.

Do yourself a big favor -- the next time your return to the "Land of Enchantment" spend some quality time at BM and play one of the finest new courses to have opened in the USA in quite some time among the affordable ranks IMHO.

[DMoriarty]

Matt, if you dont pump of the volume about courses you have played, you certainly pump up the volume about courses you havent played.

And if you dont skim courses, you've got body doubles flying around trying to keep up with you.  There just isnt enough sunlight for you to replay all the courses you play, especially since you keep playing more and more.  Now just because you occassionally return to your favorites like BB, Lost Canyons, and BR doesnt mean that you havent skimmed the rest.

And Matt I am calm.   What I say above is what I believe.  I have said it all before.  

By the way, I just love the newfound escape around here of accusing me of "lawyering" or "elaborate word-play" as a way to avoid responding to my points.  A gutless cop out, if you ask me.  

[Matt_Ward]

David M:

I'm glad you know my busy schedule better than I do.

David -- contrary to your knwoing MY schedule -- I do find the time to return to a good number of courses to see how things are going. On my latest adventure out west I stopped by to play at least two of them -- Apache Stronghold in AZ and Desert Dunes in CA. I played both of them previously and they are just some of the courses I include on any golf trek I make. Frankly, I could care less whether you believe it or not.

David -- You asked on this thread about those who are homebodies and those who galavant. I explained my position very clearly and answered in good faith a number of points you raised. I didn't dodge them or throw up some amateurish smokescreen about "arrogance" or being "gutless" or other 2nd grade bomblasts. I can't help that you may have played a limited number of courses -- I stated it very clearly that clearly people can have "fun" in a number of ways but for someone to really know the stock / quality of a particular course it would be helpful to have some sort of meaingful reference -- that can only come about, in my mind, when you have something to compare and contrast it with.

Look, we've gone through this tap dancing stuff a number of times. You seem to define golf and golf courses in one way -- I look at it differently. Viva la difference ...

[Michael Whitaker]

DMoriarty - You have to remember that Matt can't help himself... he is a USC Gamecock and, as such, is given to puffery and arrogance. "Cocks" are experts on everything... if you don't believe it, just ask them. But, some of them - the very special ones - hone their egos through years of blood, sweat and tears and graduate to a higher plane... they move from being just a "Cock" to a true "Dick." To quote Lou Holtz, "No one can beat our Cocks!"

[DMoriarty]

knowing a course exists and that you may never see it (e.g. Colt/Alison work in Japan, say Hirono) vs. even just seeing it is a worse situation yet.

Redanman, I agree.  But consider yourself lucky . . . most dont have to go nearly as far away as Japan to feel this pain.

[TEPaul]

My experience has been if for some reason you think a golf course is really good the first time you play it generally it only gets better the more you come to know it!

[TEPaul]

And another interesting thing about getting to know a golf course is some of the things that can happen during and after a restoration--such as my own course. Despite playing the course for decades, during and after a restoration you see things about the course and how it can play that you NEVER noticed before.

It's absolutely fascinating!

[Patrick_Mucci]

Dave, Matt, et. al.,

The analogy is like the kid who has only tasted his mothers home cooking and thinks it's great.
Then he eats some meals at his friends house and finds out that what he's been eating borders on swill.

Same thing with someone who has only been with one other person and thinks the sex is great.  Then they go with someone else and get their socks knocked off, and gain a whole new perspective.

Evaluation, comparison and establishing relativity can only be accomplished through diversity in the sampling.

[DMoriarty]

Evaluation, comparison and establishing relativity can only be accomplished through diversity in the sampling.

I think this is questionable even in the examples you mention.  Many love their mother's cooking till the end, no matter what else they have tasted.  And those that never taste anything else die thinking mother did it best . . .

But even if your point holds true, it is a matter of degree, isn't it?   Once one has played enough to figure out what one really enjoys, then why not settle down and enjoy one such course or a few-- provided the course can hold up over time.  What is the point of continuing to galavant around, then?  It cant just be to continue to build a basis from which to judge, can it?    At some point, one certainly knows enough to make a judgment.  

For example, I did this for a very long time.  Hopping from course to course almost every weekend, driving 3-4 round trip in the hopes of finding something I could live with week after week.  But I stopped, or at least slowed down, once I found something.  Galavanters never seem to get to the point where they can stop and just enjoy the game.  

So why do you guys do it?  I mean even after you have seen enough to have already developed your tastes?  I am starting to believe Bill Maher;  its not anything in particular driving this, just newness.

[Matt_Ward]

David M:

Think of the movie "Field of Dreams" -- "build the field and they shall come."

I enjoy the richness of a proven product no less than you
do -- I also enjoy the nervous rush of excitement in playing something that is new and has been tabbed as a "must play." Sometimes the info on a "must play" doesn;t bear out but on those other occasions when it does -- Wow!!!

You seem to think they people who galavant don't simply "enjoy the game" by your definition of it. I enjoy golf immensely in doing a bit of both things -- being local and traveling. Some people can't do that because of other time consuming things like raising a family, taking care of elderly parents, their business / work or the desire not to have get up early and make the kind of drive you highlighted. So be it. I completely understand that since each of the above has had impact on my golf plans.

I go because I thoroughly enjoy playing new places to compliment the ones I always return to such as Bethpage Black and a number of others in the greater NY area.

Viva la difference ...

[Patrick_Mucci]

Evaluation, comparison and establishing relativity can only be accomplished through diversity in the sampling.

I think this is questionable even in the examples you mention.  Many love their mother's cooking till the end, no matter what else they have tasted.  And those that never taste anything else die thinking mother did it best . . .

That's because they love their mother, are protective of her and want to think that she's the best.   That's human nature.

But even if your point holds true, it is a matter of degree, isn't it?   Once one has played enough to figure out what one really enjoys, then why not settle down and enjoy one such course or a few-- provided the course can hold up over time.  What is the point of continuing to galavant around, then?  It cant just be to continue to build a basis from which to judge, can it?    At some point, one certainly knows enough to make a judgment.  

This is a new issue, a new question.
Having sampled a few golf courses, I could be content with playing a few select courses, every day, for the rest of my life, to the exclusion of all others.

But, I would have had to go through a thorough discovery process in order to find those courses and draw that conclusion.

For example, I did this for a very long time.  Hopping from course to course almost every weekend, driving 3-4 round trip in the hopes of finding something I could live with week after week.  But I stopped, or at least slowed down, once I found something.  Galavanters never seem to get to the point where they can stop and just enjoy the game.  

I view being content with a select number of courses, or even one course, but continuing to play others I haven't yet played, as a form of research and development.
A journey of continuing education and broadening of the experience data base.  I see no negatives to those pursuits.

So why do you guys do it?  I mean even after you have seen enough to have already developed your tastes?  I am starting to believe Bill Maher;  its not anything in particular driving this, just newness.

Your position and Bill Maher's position could be viewed as one of stunted growth, complacency, stifled enthusiasm or an unwillingness to learn.

[Mark_Fine]

How did I get dragged into this conversation?  I'm just a homebody  

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