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Donnie Beck

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2006, 03:30:02 PM »
Pat,

From what I have been told the bunker was created in the 80's to prevent long hitters from the white tee from driving the green. With a lot of lobbying and support from Gil we gotten the blessing to restore the original configuration.
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Jim Franklin

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2006, 03:30:27 PM »
Thanks DC, I guess I did not notice the rest of the green when I only had a tap in  ;). The swale also did not seem as severe or pronounced like FI's or NGLA's.
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Mr Hurricane

M. Shea Sweeney

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2006, 05:38:31 PM »
Donnie-

 If you don't mind me asking,Are you doing any other work to the course?

MS
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Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2006, 06:37:28 PM »
Tommy N:

I'm about fifty replies late, but Brian Slawnik built the 13th green at Stone Eagle.  And neither one of us was thinking about Raynor or Macdonald at the time, I swear.  There may be some similarities but not EVERYTHING is directly derived from Macdonald.
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Tommy_Naccarato

Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2006, 11:57:17 PM »
Tom,
 Found about Brian building the green last night and haven't had a chance correct that. While I was correct to assume you weren't copying a double plauteau, it certainly has to be somewhat considered a double plateau, albeit a modifed one being that there are two distinct plateus that affect strategy in getting to the hole--especially on the green! I do feel that somewhere in there, you gyys might not have thought of it, but cetainly there had to be some inspiration. Maybe hidden inspiration! ;)
« Last Edit: October 04, 2006, 11:59:38 PM by Tommy Naccarato »
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Patrick_Mucci

Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #55 on: October 05, 2006, 12:29:11 PM »
Quote from: Donnie Beck on October 04, 2006, 03:30:02 PM
Pat,

From what I have been told the bunker was created in the 80's to prevent long hitters from the white tee from driving the green. With a lot of lobbying and support from Gil we gotten the blessing to restore the original configuration.



Donnie,

That's the very thing that ruins golf courses.

A faction of the membership seeking to eliminate a perceived architectural advantage to another segment of the membership, or to create an advantage for their segment.

And, when this process goes on, decade after decade the golf course gets disfigured and loses its character, that which seperated it from other golf courses.

Architects seek to forge a disinterested challenge, favoring no particular segment, it's the membership's that try to alter the golf course to suit their particular agendas.

I hope the work goes well.  

That green seems as if it's buffeted by wind and a ground game approach may be prudent on certain days.

I'd also bet that more than a few balls were skulled over that green, ruining a round.

Good Luck.
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George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #56 on: October 05, 2006, 11:22:17 PM »
Mike:

Is this swiveling/ a common thread? ...  more so now than before ("in their work").

What Raynor and Banks were really doing was "placing" the plateaus differently with some commonality to the approach.

I think of "swiveling" one of these bad-guys was, is just that, turning the green rather than different placement of the 2 higher elevations.      


RJ: the 2nd at Blue Mound is huge and really a good one,.

Early on, Raynor and Banks, as did CBM at NGLA, had a bunker to the rear center, beyond the green, and the line of play basically right thru the center of the lower elevation and if you were too aggressive, you went right thru the middle (lower elevation) and back into the bunker.

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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #57 on: October 05, 2006, 11:30:55 PM »
R J: "Waunotonomy a Maiden or DP?  As I remember it, it was more double plateau'd from side to side but a distinct trough in middle, not the offset you speak of as a true DP"

RJ, I've never seen the hole but what you are describing is the Maiden feature, shallow swale between two side by side (usually) same elevations - lots of these around

At Essex County there is one of these Maiden features to the rear of their Road hole green (I guess the "Maiden" 'cause they are suggestive of certain female features - sorry girls ... it's a compliment!!)

These DP's were really just 3 greens to shoot at in one large green - front plateau pins are usually the most difficult to play to.
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #58 on: October 06, 2006, 11:02:44 AM »
George said of Waunotonomy...
Quote
RJ, I've never seen the hole but what you are describing is the Maiden feature, shallow swale between two side by side (usually) same elevations - lots of these around

Well George, if you have never seen the hole, I must have been playing with the ghosts or clones of George Bahto and Anthony Pioppi at the SR cup a few years ago! :o  If you don't remember finding the lost tee box of the Eden, and me nearly dying of lobster allergy poisoning, well maybe I was hallucinating on the lobster tamale.  I didn't know those things could get a fella that high! ::) ;) ;D
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George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #59 on: October 06, 2006, 12:20:25 PM »
"I must have been playing with the ghosts or clones of George Bahto and Anthony Pioppi at the SR cup a few years ago!   If you don't remember finding the lost tee box of the Eden, and me nearly dying of lobster allergy poisoning, well maybe I was hallucinating on the lobster tamale"

Rich - hah .... my mind (what's left now) weas wandering - sorry - I was thinking about Wyantenuck  for some reason

yes, that was fun day - you were a lobster-mess that day. You survived !! yipeeeee, and continmue to patrol Wild Horse
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

George_Bahto

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #60 on: October 06, 2006, 12:21:33 PM »
RJ    ...... it's not easy gettin' old you know ........ the brain/memory is the SECOND thing to go !!
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If a player insists on playing his maximum power on his tee-shot, it is not the architect's intention to allow him an overly wide target to hit to but rather should be allowed this privilege of maximum power except under conditions of exceptional skill.
   Wethered & Simpson

Ted Kramer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:The Double Plateau Green
« Reply #61 on: October 06, 2006, 12:32:43 PM »
Sorry for this slightly OT comment:
Despite the fact that I have never been to Fishers Island, I have a hard imagining that is not the greatest place on earth for a round of golf.

-Ted
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