The Best Demonstration of Ball Striking and Strategy

« **Reply #50 on:** July 24, 2006, 02:21:32 PM »

Two thoughts;
Tiger wins with 13 clubs while the field plays with 14. May be this will be the new way to handicap him. How about taking the 9 iron out for the PGA.
Also, how much of a ground game did Tiger really play? Hitting high 4 and 5 irons to the throat and letting them bound another 15 yards is a "kind of" ground game. It's not the bump and run from 150 that I consider the real ground game.
Still, Tiger found a the solution to a problem that was not so hidden to the person that keeps their eyes open.

« **Reply #51 on:** July 24, 2006, 02:25:35 PM »

Jeff,

There wasn't much wind--consequently, no real need to hit 150 yard bump and runs. Maybe they should move the Open to Bandon--the wind always blows there.

« **Reply #52 on:** July 24, 2006, 02:33:54 PM »

You are correct. I was commenting on the ground game speak that has been used on TV and in this thread. Maybe I should be more precise. I bet that the shots that people give credit to Tiger for were no more than "it's 195 to your target, hit the 5". I don't associate that with ground game. This is more my problem than the folks in this forum. It is important to note that target selection it's own skill and requires the homework and attention to current conditions in order to get the desired result. I really did enjoy watching Tiger execute his game plan. Very surgical.

Hey, isn't Bandon going to get a PGA?
Thanks for the response Tim.

« **Reply #53 on:** July 24, 2006, 02:41:55 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on July 24, 2006, 01:55:48 PM

Patrick:

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, oh what a fine Christmas this would be.

Fact is, Tiger's strategy worked. Thus I am wondering why only he employed it - because it really did seem like everyone else was hitting primarily drivers.

So yes, it could be that only Tiger has the unique combination of abilities that would make this strategy work. But is he THAT different in physical ability than all the rest of the pros? I'm ready to believe it... But other answers do remain possible.

TH

Tom,

You answered your own question in that last paragraph.

The reason nobody else employed that same strategy as Tiger is because nobody else can even come close to matching Tiger's precision play with the mid to long irons when his swing, and his confidence is on. His yardages for approach shots were consistently from 180-215 yards out, and his pinpoint control of those shots this week was outstanding to watch. Yesterday's round was an absolute clinic. On the weekend, Els was less precise with his wedges than Tiger was with his 5 iron.

Tiger basically spotted the field 25-60 yards on all the par 4's and 5's every round, and still stomped everyone in the field. His spectacular iron play combined with perfect touch with the putter added up to another major. If he would've had just an average putting round on Saturday, the tourney would've been over then.

I've read comments on another simlar thread that a few guys found yesterday's round dull and boring.

I certainly did not. I enjoyed watching the different styles of play and the different strategies employed to attack the same setup. Tiger's control yesterday made everything look easier than it actually was.

In my view, I think that Tiger's exemplary play may have caused the other players to be more aggresive than they probably wished to be. Perhaps they knew they couldn't beat him by laying the ball back out of trouble, and that their only chance was to try and have shorter irons for approaches, which ultimately would bring more touble into play.

« **Reply #54 on:** July 24, 2006, 02:51:33 PM »

When this puny 11 played WFW and then walked it the Monday of the U.S.Open I suggested on this board that Tiger employ his Open strategy at WFW. If he only did what I said he would have one more major. I hate it when I'm this right

« **Reply #55 on:** July 24, 2006, 02:56:40 PM »

"Incidentally, Hank Haney was quoted in the UK press over the weekend saying the thing that struck him most about Tiger was that of all the 200 pro's he had worked with, Tiger unquestionably had the strongest desire to improve, never mind being the best already."

Philip:

Certainly that is very unique but frankly Tiger himself has been saying that for a number of years now but apparently a distinction he's making was lost on those listening to him.

Tiger Woods has never said he wants to be JUST the best----what he has said is he wants to be the best he thinks HE CAN BE.

There's probably a big difference in that seemingly nuancy distinction but God only knows how good HE thinks he could be.

However, there is one cautionary tale in perhaps that kind of thinking I can recall.

Tom Watson when he was at the absolute peak of his game and career actually said he wanted to take his game to another level which he felt was to basically hit just about every shot perfectly. Ironically, that was simultaneous to the point where his career declined and never recovered.

There is good evidence too that Johnny Miller tampered with something that produced one of the hottest extended streaks ever seen, and he too never really recovered.

« **Reply #56 on:** July 24, 2006, 02:58:21 PM »

Jamie - wow. I guess I've lived my whole golf-watching life with one guy who could do things the others can't (Nicklaus, then Tiger) but that still doesn't make it any less fascinating or impressive. So Tiger's incredible ability with long irons plus great putting allowed him to play the course in a manner no one else could... that is awesome in the true meaning of that word.

BTW I found the entire event anything but dull or boring - in fact it was damn near the most intriguing major I've seen in a long long time.

TH

« **Reply #57 on:** July 24, 2006, 03:04:13 PM »

RE: Haney's comments..perhaps another difference is that Tiger may be the only one of those 200 pro's that MAY improve after working with Haney

Yesterday was superb..Tiger's play was as good as I have ever seen..his ball control nothing short of clinical..but then his iron swing has actually been looking good for about 12 months..it is that pesky driver swing that is causing the Haney/Woods team so much trouble

Big congratu;ations to Mr Woods..it was a thrill to watch.
Now that is the way golf should have to be played!

« **Reply #58 on:** July 24, 2006, 03:06:51 PM »

I've read comments on another simlar thread that many guys found yesterday's round dull and boring.

Jamie:

If anyone on here said in some other thread that they found Tiger and yesterday at Hoylake boring, my suggestion to them would be that they take up watching some other sport. Unfortunately, despite the hundreds of channels today and the multiplicity of different sporting events, I don't think they'll be able to find any gladiators to the death on TV today.

« **Reply #59 on:** July 24, 2006, 03:11:54 PM »

Jamie...
The last time I was that 'bored' was watching a snooker player called Steve Davis execute a maximum break on his way to a world title...he like Tiger was streets ahead of his competition in both mental and physical abililty..a joy to watch

« **Reply #60 on:** July 24, 2006, 03:14:01 PM »

It wasn't boring, just like watching a movie that you have already seen before. It is still entertaining, but you know how it is going to turn out. The ending to yesterday's 'movie' was spoiled when Tiger turned up at Hoylake for his round.

« **Reply #61 on:** July 24, 2006, 03:33:16 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on July 24, 2006, 02:58:21 PM

Jamie - wow. I guess I've lived my whole golf-watching life with one guy who could do things the others can't (Nicklaus, then Tiger) but that still doesn't make it any less fascinating or impressive. So Tiger's incredible ability with long irons plus great putting allowed him to play the course in a manner no one else could... that is awesome in the true meaning of that word.

BTW I found the entire event anything but dull or boring - in fact it was damn near the most intriguing major I've seen in a long long time.

TH

Tom,

Right on! Unfortunately, at age 37, I only got to see the twilight of Nicklaus' greatness, but I think we are damn lucky to be able to watch his "bear" apparent as well.

« **Reply #62 on:** July 24, 2006, 03:36:53 PM »

Jamie - you saw enough - I assume you were watching in April 1986?

Heck I'm only 42 - so I came in pretty much after Jack's total dominance also, although the two-major year of 1980 I remember VERY well - and I also have strong memories of 1972 when he came as close to the grand slam as anyone would until Tiger...

Yet it still does surprise me when one guy can do things no one else can. I guess the pros are ALL so great to me, it seems weird that even they have players they have to look up to....

TH

« **Reply #63 on:** July 24, 2006, 03:42:04 PM »

Quote from: Glenn Spencer on July 24, 2006, 03:14:01 PM

It wasn't boring, just like watching a movie that you have already seen before. It is still entertaining, but you know how it is going to turn out. The ending to yesterday's 'movie' was spoiled when Tiger turned up at Hoylake for his round.

I hate to give Glenn a compliment

, but he said it well

« **Reply #64 on:** July 24, 2006, 04:14:32 PM »

I've read comments on another simlar thread that many guys found yesterday's round dull and boring.

Jamie:

If anyone on here said in some other thread that they found Tiger and yesterday at Hoylake boring, my suggestion to them would be that they take up watching some other sport. Unfortunately, despite the hundreds of channels today and the multiplicity of different sporting events, I don't think they'll be able to find any gladiators to the death on TV today.
..................

Actually, Tom - I found yesterdays last round completely boring too. So much that I nodded off for an hour ! First time that's ever happened to me. Maybe I'm just getting old ?

Tiger was superb and the best of the pack - but then we all knew that on Thursday morning ! The best on the planet - going on to be the best that ever set foot on the same planet ?
So where was his driver ? That golfing impliment of ever increasing rarity. Not needed, of course. Not even close to being needed ! I suppose we can blame mother nature for entreating us in the UK to a little dose of fine weather. Pity the bitch didn't huff and puff just a little bit more than she did.
So all credit to Mr Woods, and hard luck Mr Demarco and Mr Els.

footnote ; Mr Gary Player has called for a 50 yard reduction in the ball (for the pro's) - and stated that some in the galleries told him - "I want to see these guys hit driver"

So do I - but will we ever see the likes again ?

Michael,

Unlike Tiger, Steve Davis lacked in personality - in fact, I don't think he had one at all - but he certainly was the finest snooker player in the world !

Alfie.

« **Reply #65 on:** July 24, 2006, 04:53:39 PM »

Alfie..
I think Steve Davis was alot like Faldo and Hogan, very misunderstood, whenever I got to see him{we had a mutaul friend} he was a great guy with a super sense of humour and a keen interst in Jazz Funk..another passion of mine in the early 80's

« **Reply #66 on:** July 24, 2006, 04:59:51 PM »

Tom,

I'll never forget where I was watching the 1986 Master's final round. I also watch it every time it is replayed on The Golf Channel. My wife just laughs everytime she sees me watching it. It's become like "Caddyshack", I've gotten to know all the lines of each announcer as Jack makes his march. It's a sickness.

Alfie,

If the gallery didn't see guys hitting driver then eveyone of them must have been ONLY watching Tiger, because I saw quite a few drivers hit by many players. The course conditioning, the lack of wind, and his excellent mid/long iron play, allowed Tiger to not hit his driver. He even said that he hit his 3 wood in a couple of holes in the final round, due to a bit more wind.

As for Gary Player calling for a 50 yard rollback...c'mon Gary. 50 yards is a bit much. If he was 35 years old, I don't think he'd be singing the same tune. That statement is about as good as most of his course designs...

MWP,

In regard to Tiger, can you recall seeing a more virtuoso performance in hitting mid to long irons? I can't.

« **Reply #67 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:02:38 PM »

Quote from: JSlonis on July 24, 2006, 04:59:51 PM

Tom,

I'll never forget where I was watching the 1986 Master's final round. I also watch it every time it is replayed on The Golf Channel. My wife just laughs everytime she sees me watching it. It's become like "Caddyshack", I've gotten to know all the lines of each announcer as Jack makes his march. It's a sickness. ;Dis about as good as most of his course designs...

Well then that is a sickness many of us share... just get shivas or Paul Thomas started on this....

My own 8 year old son does a mean Verne Lundquist
"maybe... yes sir!!!!"

« **Reply #68 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:24:09 PM »

Quote from: Tom_Doak on July 23, 2006, 10:18:34 AM

The more I watch the more I think I am starting to understand Tiger's strategy. It's not just that he doesn't want to hit driver; it's that he wants to leave himself hitting full shots to the greens where he can use his command of trajectory. If you're hitting half wedges to these greens it's very difficult to predict how much the ball is going to release.

Tom I am somewhat surprised by your comments as your designs, at least the ones I have played, demand that the player thinks his way around the golf course rather than power his way around it.

I love that the course negated the power of some and yet some (Cabrera) tried to use his power, his machismo as it were to overcome the course. Woods even fought his personal tendency to hit it too hard to win out over the golf course.

I found the Hoylake open compelling because it offered so many variations on the theme and yet the best won out.

A couple of other comments; Kleins comments on GOLFWEEK TV, when viewed after the tournament, make Klein look almost clairvoyant.

Andy North's demonstration of throwing balls at the tenth hole approach was one of the simplest demonstratons I have ever seen to explain links golf and the inherent risk and reward.

« **Reply #69 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:30:02 PM »

shivas, you know that got audible yuks... I can just hear you saying those as you typed them....

« **Reply #70 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:35:49 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on July 24, 2006, 05:02:38 PM

Quote from: JSlonis on July 24, 2006, 04:59:51 PM
Tom,

I'll never forget where I was watching the 1986 Master's final round. I also watch it every time it is replayed on The Golf Channel. My wife just laughs everytime she sees me watching it. It's become like "Caddyshack", I've gotten to know all the lines of each announcer as Jack makes his march. It's a sickness. ;Dis about as good as most of his course designs...

Well then that is a sickness many of us share... just get shivas or Paul Thomas started on this....

My own 8 year old son does a mean Verne Lundquist
"maybe... yes sir!!!!"

I see we've brought up one of my favorite topics of all time.....

Huck, my daughters are well familiar with "And there's no dout about it [pause]...the Bear...has come out of hibernation...back to 15..."

was Nantz' first Masters, so I musgive him kudos for a job well done there, esp since it was his first and the importance of the event...2 examples:

when Jack's tee ball stopped rolling he said "Tom [Weiskopf], that ball was within 2 inches of rolling into the cup", so he avoided the cliche of saying an inch

and 2. the "out of hibernation" line...after he said it he feared it was a cliche...but later on Brent Musberger, who unfortunately was in the Butler Cabin that week - God, i wonder what Weiskopf, who was sitting with him, thought about some of his remarks

- told him "Kid, that was the line of the show"...Nantz also delivered it perfectly...

Brent,stupidly, described the scene as Jack walked up 18 after his tee shot by saying"you can hear TVs all across the country coming to this dance"

and one more Brent: when Jack had to withdraw from the 1983 Masters due to his back, Brent was interviewing him...he asked Jack "why don't you ask them to delay your starting time", not realizing , of course, that that isn't done in golf

« **Reply #71 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:38:43 PM »

Great stuff, gents. See Jamie, I told you not to get these guys started on 1986.

Shivas - that last part is a hell of a good point though - Jack's presence on the leaderboard did cause the gags bac then also. BUT... Watson particularly did stare him down, take his best, beat him - several times (painfully so). The question remains does a Watson exist among the great players today?

« **Reply #72 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:39:42 PM »

Quote from: Shivas on July 24, 2006, 05:23:46 PM

That is HUGE...that is HUGE!!...that's the better part of 300 yards...he'll have less than 200 yards to the hole...

...

Toam Kite, maaatch thaat...

...

Though...he's sneaky long...

talk about a guy who wasn't great at his job blowing one of the greatest gigs of all time cause of his BIG mouth......

and Bently actually said "Yes sir!" when Jack holed his eagle putt at 15, but that isn't the one people remember ...I think Verne delivered it better

Huck, I laugh every time I think about our round at Calippe this year when we were talking about this very topic and you let loose a booming"YES SIR" that reverberated across the hills there...

« **Reply #73 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:41:11 PM »

Paul, I do aim to please. I must admit I cracked myself up there.

Right on re Bentley, btw. He got the yes sir in before Verne. I guess the key to longevity is to add the "maybe".

« **Reply #74 on:** July 24, 2006, 05:41:12 PM »

Quote from: Shivas on July 24, 2006, 05:38:02 PM

Not to take unfair shots at a fellow Wildcat (albeit, a dropout), but I lost all respect for Musberger when, in all seriousness, on live TV, he asked a guy who had just been hired for his first head coaching job:

So how does it feel to get a head job?

priceless

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