Patrick...first of all I WORK on a golf course, so I am aware of what enviromental impacts they have. I also am aware of what many golf courses are doing to lessen impacts and preserve wildlands on their property.

I'm aware of where you work, and that's not the function of a golf course anymore than it's the function of a residential community, municipal complex, shopping mall or a farm.

As for Long Island and the Hamptons, you are much closer to that part of the world than I am and you can no doubt speak more intellegently about any impacts occuring out there.

Are you aware of the issue Mark Hissey was referencing ?
It's not about the displacement of species.

Natural disasters have tremendous impacts on wildlife. But to my knowledge, with the possible exception of large meteor impacts, natural disastors have not eliminated entire species. Man has.

Could you cite one instance where a golf course or golf courses have been responsible for the extinction of a species ?

Where I live I have seen forest fires char hundreds of thousands of acres and have extremely positive impacts on wildlife....Smokey Bear and his message of stomping out every fires is probably one of the single largest wildlands mistakes ever promoted. Someday over some beers I'd be happy to discuss with you the benefits of fire in our wildlands....once again, its about a balance that does exist and man's constant tinkering with that balance screws it up.....and it comes back and bites his ass.

So, man should continue to live in caves, safe from forest fires ?  What's more important, humans or insects, reptiles and animals ?  Should civilization cease so that the lower orders of life can live ?

Species adapting thru migration?  Mucci...now it is you that is out in left field!

I would wager that 80% of the song birds in America use to make the open grassland hills that ring our communities their home in the summer for breeding and nesting....what happens to them when those hillsides are developed?  

They fly elsewhere.
Birds are migratory.  Each fall they fly south and each spring
they fly north, finding the appropriate area for nesting and breeding.
My highly developed neighborhood and surrounding towns in Metro NY are full of them.

What happens to whales that have been "migrating" for 1000's of years to areas for breeding only to find oil spills, pollution from the fishing industry and the US Navy?

Do you mean the fishing industry that feeds millions of Americans each day ?  The one that provides a livelihood to millions as well.  Or, were you refering to the U.S. Navy which protects you 24/7 ?

How did those songbirds fare when Mt St Helens blew.
Do you think the 700 degree temperatures kept them in harmony ?   How about the trees for thousands of square miles, the trees and shrubs necessary for birds to nest and feed in ?  How about the lakes that were destroyed ?

The hand of man has inceased the life expectancy and the quality of life for all of us.  But, if you want to return to cave dwelling so you can hear the songbirds, that's your perogative.

How far do you think whales are gonna move to avoid that?

Whales migrate thousands of miles, mostly underwater.
Whales became endangered because they were hunted, not because of the fishing industry or U.S. Navy.

Had it not been for the U.S. Navy, you'd be speaking Japenese.  I'm sure that the thousands of men and women who died or were wounded defending America, and their families appreciate your distaste for their service to our country.  Colonel Nathan R Jessep wasn't all wrong.  

Where I live the song birds disapeared. Where did they go?

They went to a more stable environment.

Are they staying one step ahead of the developer?

YES

What impact does a golf course have on those birds when the habitat is constantly mowed?

Probably a lot better then when their habitat is altered into a school, hospital, airport, grocery store and a clothing store.

It's not the function of every piece of land to support wildlife.
Human needs come first.

While you are busy worrying about the plight of humans, just remember this, as the climate warms, the areas of frozen tundra thaw and release carbon into the atmosphere....and this carbon adds to the warming and more tundra thaws....and it adds to the warming....

Are you aware that Glaciers once covered an enormous part  of the U.S., including Long Island.

So, was it better back then, with NO songbirds and no humans, or is it better now ?

This planet began warming LONG BEFORE the hand of man was involved.  How do you account for that ?

They call these areas ecosystems for a reason Mucci...perhaps you should pay attention to them....there is a cause and effect...gee...kind of like "firm and fast"

I do pay attention, but, I don't take an extremist, lunatic fringe approach to my views, that's TEPaul's job, and apparently yours as well.

Patrick, so you do value humans endevors above all other life on this planet?

Unequivically, YES.[/color]

You make so many stupid arguments and none are really worth replying to.

They aren't stupid, they only seem stupid to you because you can't understand them.

And, you can't reply to my questions because you don't know the answers.

Your knowledge of fire ecology is zero....your knowledge of the needs of song birds is even less...do you even have a clue as to the role songbirds play while they are flitering about?

My knowledge on specific topics is limited only by my interest in them.

As to the role songbirds play as they're flittering about, it's to provide food for the hawks in Manhattan when the pigeons aren't available.

You do not see any co-existance possible when push comes to shove.

NO.

As an extreme example, venonmous snakes can't exist side by side with man, neither can fire ants or killer bees.  
There's an inherent conflict in the existance of those species in close proximity to man.

If a child dies because of an attack by any of the above are you more concerned about the eradication of the creature causing the death, or the loss of the human life ?

You may choose to protect the cause, I choose to protect the human.

And please, don't tell me that the question is stupid or beyond your ability to comprehend.

You definately need a lesson in natural history. I suggest you start with Rachel Carson...

Patrick, its only a matter of time before man eliminates the wrong species and then things will snowball until man himself is gone....

Bullshit.

Is the world any worse because the Wooly Mammoth isn't parading around Minnesota, or the Saber Tooth Tiger in some other location ?  Give me a break with all this doom and gloom nonsense.

And again, answer my question about the fact that the planet started warming up millions of years ago, long before man had a hand on anything other than his own organ and a few rocks.

Tell me how the glaciers melted absent the hand of man.

Man has improved civilization, his standard of living, health and life expectancy, all through his own efforts.

If you want to live in the woods and commune with nature, that's your decision, but, please, spare me these absurd examples of petrochemical plants in Louisiana or the U.S. Navy in the Pacific..  

Voytek,

I'd agree, that balance, a prudent approach is required, not some knee jerk reaction to the unknowing sins of others decades, if not centuries removed.

Do you really believe that the textile mills in Paterson, NJ, that diverted water from the Passaic River, vis a vis canals, and then returned that used water, laced with colorants and chemicals, really understood the environmental impact in 1810 ?  1850 ?  1900 ?  1940 ?    During World War II ?

Do you think towns understood the peril of living down stream from other towns, or the benefits of living up river ?

And making golf courses, or anyone else jump through hoops for questionable purposes is a waste of resources and an impediment to progress.

It's easy to have 20-20 hindsight.