I agree with the sentiment that these developers know what the deal is regarding munis in the proposed area to be developed.  What is surprising to me are the number of developers or private individuals willing to build a daily fee with no room to develop housing as there are many more lucrative investments.  The amount of money paid out before they ring the cash register is astounding.

I think governments should provide services that are lacking AND what its resident's are willing to financially support.  The problem is consultation.  How does a local or state government know what the residents expect and are willing to support without a consultation process which includes budgeting info?  At the very least surveys outlining possible services to be provided should be sent out every ten years or so AND long term planning should in part be based on these consulting surveys.  Of course, folks have to respond!  Its hard to blame governments when they are driving blind due to citizen apathy.  I for one am more interested in the details rather than the broad strokes (which by the look of the current campaign tells the voters nada).

Ciao

Ciao

 


As to my amigo Garland Bayley's  "crybaby" analysis LOL!

Be careful what you wish for, Karl Marx is alive and well in state government.

I think you guys are taking the terms "tax-free" at face value.  There's nothing that one can give themselves that is truly "free."  Munis take an opportunity cost hit, because the land that could be developed privately would raise tax money - in theory, an 100% opportunity cost.  

Archie: I could not have expressed an opinion any better than what you stated.....as you well know and understand the daily fee market, you know exactly how hard we need to work at Twisted Dune to be successful in a very competitive AC golf market.

Since the history of public golf in the US started with munis-see the Cobb's Creek thread- does anyone know the first non-resort public daily fee course developed with private money?

Pinehurst is a resort and doesn't qualify. I'm looking for the first non-resort, non-muni public daily fee course developed with private money. I'm thinking of a place like Marble Hall GC in suburban Philadelphia that was designed by its owner- William Flynn. Perhaps Wayne Morrison can chime in here and tell us when this course opened for public play.

Since the history of public golf in the US started with munis-see the Cobb's Creek thread- does anyone know the first non-resort public daily fee course developed with private money?

The Island Golf Links now known as Garden City Golf Club was built by the Garden City Company and one day passes were $0.30 and could be purchased at the club or the hotel. Annual passes were $15.00. Opening day was 1897, and I can't say it was the first of this model but it had to be close.

I guess you could argue that it was a resort with the nearby hotel, but it appears from GCGC history book that you could just play the course.

Since the history of public golf in the US started with munis-see the Cobb's Creek thread- does anyone know the first non-resort public daily fee course developed with private money?

I might be Kebo Valley in Maine.  While in a resort area the course itself is not part of a resort.




   



History
Founded in 1888

For over one hundred years, golfers from all over the world, young and old, famous and not so famous, professional and novice have thrilled to the challenges of the Kebo Valley Golf Club. Rich in tradition, endless in surprises, incapable of being mastered, the Kebo course, once played, never loses its attraction.

Kebo is not just another golf course. Kebo is a source of pride for Mount Desert Island, an enticing lure to tourists from around the world, and noble adversary to all who play the course.

Kebo is a living thing to the people who challenge its fairways. Its face and character constantly change with the seasons, the wind conditions and even with the daily movement of the sun. It seems, at times, nature conspires with the course in order to change a brilliant nine or even fifteen holes into a frustrating round by the time one walks off the 18th green.

But Kebo is also a special place, even to those who have never played the game of golf. It preserves hundreds of acres of land in their natural state, providing a recreational resource which helps draw thousands to Mount Desert Island. It is a sanctuary amidst the hectic pace of a Bar Harbor summer.

On July 14, 1894, the local paper, the Bar Harbor Record, noted “A golf club has been formed and links covering one and three fourths miles have been laid out at Kebo Valley. Mr. Herbert Leeds, the champion player, is the instigator of the club.” Leeds would return to Kebo over the years and after redesigns by member Waldron Bates and pro Shirley Liscomb, he would have a hand in the 18-hole course that remains in play today. Kebo Valley Golf Club is one of those rare courses that seem both state-of-the-art and turn-of-the-century. The course is as every bit as captivating today as when it was installed.
Kebo Valley Golf Club Milestones

    * April 27, 1888: Kebo Valley Club incorporated as business promoting the "cultivation of athletic sports and furnishing innocent amusement for the public for reasonable compensation."
    * July 18, 1889: First clubhouse opens, near the site of the current fourth hole. The club grounds also host a small theater, casino, horse race track, baseball field, and tennis and crochet courts.
    * 1891: The first six holes, designed by famed architect H.C. Leeds, completed. Only seven other courses operating in the year 2000 were built before Kebo.
    * 1896: Course redesigned, three holes added, completing the nine hole layout. "Kebo Valley Golf Club Links" began to attract national attention.
    * 1899: First Clubhouse burns down at the beginning of July.
    * 1900: Second clubhouse opens near site of present 18th green. Famed golfer Harry Vardon plays an exhibition match.
    * 1902: Kebo becomes a member of the United States Golf Association.
    * 1906: Course reconstruction shifts layout, boosts length from 2501 to 3000 yards.
    * 1911: President Taft cards a 27 on what was then the "Elbow" hole, which is today's 17th hole. This hole is now commonly referred to as the "Taft" hole.
    * 1920: Kebo acquires 40 acres of land east of Harden Farm Road, opens the "outer" nine holes, completing the 18-hole layout.
    * 1922: Golf great Walter Hagen played two rounds with famous trick shot artist Joel Kirkwood. Hagen first shoots par 70, then cards a course-record 67. Hagen's record would stand for 50 years, before club pro Lew Hershey shoots a 65.
      Some years before Hershey's great round, longtime Kebo worker William "Bill" Burns challenged Hagen's record. He was eight strokes under par through 16 holes, but despite the efforts of friends and fellow golfers to illuminate his finish with their car headlights, Burns was unable to complete the round.
    * September3, 1926: One of the nation's leading golf architects, Donald Ross, wrote that the third hole should be rebuilt. Ross argued that an approach shot failing to reach the lofty summit would ignominiously roll back downhill past the luckless golfer. As the blood pressure of the then average portly member of Kebo rose, arteries hardened and breath, as well as tempers, became short. It was eventually decided that the climb to the "Shangri-La" green should be eliminated. Today, members often wonder how it might be to play the third hole as it was originally constructed.
    * 1947: The Fire of 1947 consumes 2nd clubhouse, and much of Bar Harbor.
    * 1958: Carts begin to replace caddies.
    * 1960: Kebo hosts its first Maine Amateur. Jimmy Veno wins the Men's, and Martha Page wins the Women's.

   

 The Town of Brewster MA owns and manages 2 courses at the Captains Golf facility, and both courses are fine layouts with great conditions. A few miles away, the Ocean Edge Resort just finished a Nicklaus Design redo of their course. Ocean Edge has hundreds of condo’s lining the fairways, and some are owned by retirees.

 The Ocean Edge residents now are faced with a decision-either join the Town owned courses for $900.00 per year, or pay a hefty initiation and membership fee and play the upscale course bordering the condominiums.  

One has to ask don't communities in many locales in the USA have a recreation / community department that provides access and often facilities for people to introduce themselves to for their overall enjoyment ?

I mean towns have tennis courts -- they have ballfields, they have swimming pools, etc, etc.

The logic is not that big a stretch to extend to the golf side of things.

The issue is at what level (caliber of course) / budget amount is appropriate for the local area people to absorb? Some towns have deeper pockets than others. If private forces are interested in moving ahead with their own plans AFTER  really examing the marketplace isn't the onus on the private provider to situate their product where the probability of market success makes more sense?

 


Matt... entrepeneurs are really in trouble if government gets into a business.....how can you make a value judgment on demand if the government can build a facility that makes no sense economically ....doesn't have to make a profit....worse yet doesn't even have to service debt ....pays no taxes on the land.... and receives benefits (liquor licenses) ...political business/fundraisers et al


Look at the insanity we witnessed at Deepdale....where the politicians tried to grab one of the toniest clubs in America..

We need less government in business ...not more

by the way ...they usually don't build great projects...too many favorite sons in the process   lol!