The last time I played Barona Creek was last summer 1 days
 after they had hosted the Southern Cal. PGA Section Championship. The conditions were hard and firm, the greens hard and fast... TOUGH putting, to say the least. After watching a little of the action, it's obvious that they have softened up the conditions for the Nationwide Champ.  Not sure why they can't play the same course that I played, but the end result is low scores and more than a few eagles... And yes, those guys are really f**king good!!!

Well, this would seem to support John's theory.

When the Nationwide Tour played in my home town of Livermore at the end of March 2007, the winner was at even par and a couple of shots clear of the field on a course that is right around 7,000 yards long. The greens were pretty firm but not unreceptive. The elevation changes, rough and wind were the biggest challenges faced by the contestants.

Certainly not all of the NationwideTour's events feature those types of conditions, but I don't think you can completely generalize the course set-ups faced by these player's as "easy" week after week.

RMD:

Thanks for the info.

I just have one question... does there EXIST a course that your friends find generally difficult?

I ask because this course is rated 75.3.  If your friends routinely expect to shoot 4-5 under, does that mean they are all +6-8 indices?

I don't ask that in a smartass way - I fully expect an answer to be "yes, that's about what their indices would be, if they had them."

But then that gets back to my main question.. if this course - rated 75.3 - isn't that hard to begin with, then what course is?

TH

OK, here's a first had report after witnessing play today:

Fairways have indeed been narrowed, but they are all closer to 40 than 30 yards wide; this would be considered generous by PGA Tour standards. Any narrower and the bunkers would be way too far inside the rough line.

Rough is a nonfactor. It is annual rye overseed and completely whispy, not too deep just off the fairway (1-2 inches) and 6 inches deep at its worst. You would have to stray very far off the centerline to encounter a severe lie.

There is almost no greenside rough; many closely mowed aprons which lead to chipping areas. One would be unlucky to be buried deep in the hay just off the green.

Pin placements were 6 easy, 6 medium, 6 hard. This is obviously not the PGA Tour, where they have resorted to 18 hard these days. I've played Torrey the day after the event and they are all tough there. Todays difficult pins were: 5 right over the front left bunker just past the downslope, 7 front right just on the green, 9 just over the front bunker just past the downslope, 13 far left about 8 feet from the edge, 16 front right, 17 front right also.

The greens aren't any where near mushy, but players are making ball marks and stopping the ball downwind out of the rough with little problem. They're rolling beautifully; if you pick the right line you will make quite a few putts.

I followed John Riegger (16th on the ML) and Argentinian Miguel Carballa who won the Panama Event. Both players struck the ball well; Barbolio barely missed 1 fairway as his tee shot kicked a litte right when it landed on #2, he ended up in the first cut which was inconsequential. Riegger went through the faiway twice on 12 and 15; both times he hit PW for his second and had little trouble stopping the ball. Both players reached the par 5 1st and 13th and made birdie. On the 580 yard 17th their 300 yard drives forced them to layup, Barbolio converted his birdie. Carballo birdied 8 and Riegger 9 for their only non par 5 birdies. Carballo went through the 6th with a 5 iron and ended up in the back bunker; even landing in the fringe he almost rolled off the green for their only bogey of the day. Both players could have been 5-6 shots lower if they made any putts; they each shot 68.

In summary this is the anti US Open setup, wide fairways with little penal rough allowing the players to display their skills. Although the greens are by no means easy to read or execute on, putts and scores can be made. Shackelford must be smiling back in LA!

Riviera never gets torched when tour players play it under normal conditions--member play set-up.

Yet the pro's have torched Riviera many times.  Do they set the tournament up easier than for member play?  

I promise I won't bring this up again.

Tournaments have been held on 7,000 plus courses since the mid 1920's. Up until sometime in the late '80's, those were long courses.

But 7400 yard courses today are short. Very short. In relative terms they play something like a 6500 yard course would have in 1965. The math is pretty easy.

With the distances all pros (even the shorter ones) hit it today, courses don't play long until you get to 8,000 yards or so. At sea level.

If protecting against par is important to you (it's not to me), then a Barona at 7400 yards is not helping your cause. In fact, it's hurting. My guess is that to the extent Barona is resistant to scoring, it is for reasons other than its length.

BTW, I love the look of the course on TV.

Further BTW, it doesn't look to me like they are tearing up the place as the early rounds seemed to presage.

Bob