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Mike Benham

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #25 on: September 03, 2007, 07:18:46 PM »
Joe -

Did you take a caddy?

Mike
"... and I liked the guy ..."

Jordan Wall

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2007, 12:07:38 AM »
Mike,

Nooooo.  
I like to caddy, and dont mind carrying my own bag.
Taking a caddy would certainly be fun, just not for the wallet.
As long asd I can walk I'm more then happy carrying..

Did you take a caddy?

Cheers,
Jordan

igrowgrass

Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2007, 12:50:22 AM »
I'd love to hear a forum of real turf professionals discuss CB, and its prospects for achieving the kind of MM that would be ideal for such a design within the next 3-5 years.  Is it fair to say, the coming years will be a turf challenge?  I hope the turf community will all pitch in and collaborate with the local CB super to generate plenty of knowledge and ideas.  

Its an interesting choice of turf for the environment the Northwest is known for.  The biggest challenge will be how they choose to handle Poa annua control.

Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2007, 04:47:32 AM »
I must admit I enjoyed every minute of my 5 hour round.  I noticed in my group and the group ahead that players unaccumstomed to walking were getting weary on the back nine.  In fact, it was not unusual for the group in front - two couples - to be walking off the tee when I arrived.  

There is a refreshment stand on the course that also slows down play as does the fact that one must pass right by the halfway house between 9 and 10.  

Five hour rounds will be the norm here.   That would in no way deter me from playing the course again.  Neither would the current conditioning for that matter.

Mike

I'm sure it's possible, at a great course, to enjoy a 5 hour round.  That doesn't mean that a 3.5 or 4 hour round wouldn't be even more enjoyable.  I dread the day when a 5 hour round becomes acceptable, not least because that will spell the end of the 36 hole day out.  It sounds to me as if you're saying it already is.
In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tommy_Naccarato

Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2007, 05:08:05 AM »
I talked with someone who played there last week and said the course needs 1 maybe 2 years to mature.  Does anyone agree?

Joel,
Any new course needs time to mature, at least in my book, and Chambers will only get better over time.

My round took slightly less then 4.5 hours. We started at 3:40 and was off the course slightly before 8:00, and that was with a 5 minute breather and a bottle of water after nine. That wazs me--slow walker--on foot the entire way. We waited on one hole, on the tee at #14, but that was it.

Don't anyone be fooled, Chambers is a great course with some really great people putting it all together. I think it represents a turning point in golf architecture, or at the very least is part of a specific turning point where maybe even Sebonack can be included; where a modern golf architecture firm--a highly successful one got to perform at their very best, and you can credit the Doak's The C&C's, The Hanse's, The DeVries and others for getting them there...

Jay Blasi, if you should be reading this, you have done an excellent job! I had a blast and to me that's what Golf should be all about.

Now if we had to be critical: if someone could do something about that clubhouse! (Great setting and they literally created the coldest clubhouse with a minimal view from the inside4...the architect who designed it obviously must be designing hospitals or elementary schools. It had me wishing that they purchased the old Carnoustie clubhouse and shipped it over piece by piece! That would have been a billion times better!

Didn't stop us from having some fun out there till late at night though!

Jeffrey Prest

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2007, 06:15:04 AM »
Joe,

I certainly like the look of the course, although I agree with others that it still needs time to settle down.

You're obviously a big fan of the par 3s at 15 and 17 and I can see their scenic value but I wondered if you could explain what else makes you rate them so highly?


Joe Bentham

Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #31 on: September 05, 2007, 12:22:42 AM »
Jeffery--
I  might not be as quick to disregard scenic value in a golf hole as others, particularly one shotters.  That being said, I think both 15 and 17 are great holes outside their scenic beauty.
 15 has a fair amount of downhill in it, and from the tee it looks as if a misjudged yardage could land you in the water.  Options exist to land a ball short left and run it up into the green.  Green is big and undulating with plenty of nasty pin locals in relation to the bunkering.  I also imagine players are presented with a stiff breeze into their faces (I wouldn't know, chamber of commerce day when we played) off the water often.
 17  has multiple tee options one set being more straight on, the other elevated and a bit to the right (when looking back from the green).  Great pin locations abound, and dictate play from the tee.  Options exist to land it short and run it on, more so then 15.
 I really liked the holes as a set.  They sit at different angles in relation to the water and the weather.  They are different clubs from what ever set of tees your on.  I'm not sure what else you'd want in a par3.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 12:23:13 AM by Joe Bentham »

Richard Choi

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #32 on: September 05, 2007, 03:20:02 AM »
I'm sorry, I LOVE Chambers Bay, but its par 3's are the weakest link by far.

There is very little variety between the four par 3's. They all play downhill (#3 at best is level), they all play to about same yardage (from the sand tees, I hit #9, #8, PW, and #9) and three of them play towards water.

Except for #3, all of them play left to right with huge bunkers guarding the right side. If you took pictures of just the greens and surroundings you will have a hard time telling them apart.

The main strength of Chambers Bay is the collection of very very good par 4's. There really isn't a weak par 4. The par 5's are good (but not as good as the par 4's) and the par 3's are just not up to the standards set by the longer holes.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 03:24:09 AM by Richard Choi »

Joe Bentham

Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #33 on: September 05, 2007, 03:54:54 AM »
Richard--
#3 is level for arguments sake, #9 is a big drop shot (85-100 feet), 15 is slightly downhill and 17 has tee options for both.  
The scorecard has the sands tee par3 yardages as 130, 168, 127, and 142.  The next set back is 145, 202, 139 and 206.  There is at least 3 different clubs hit on any given day and weather condition.  #3 plays north, #9 plays west and way down hill. #15 plays west, slightly downhill and hard against the water.  #17 plays south and sits hard against the water.  I would argue that there is plenty of variety in the type of shots required to get it close on the short holes at Chambers Bay.
Are they the strongest part of the golf course?  Not sure.  I thought the uphill holes away from the water where all very good.  4, 7 and 13 where the highlights there for me.  I'd play the teals on the par 3's next time out if I where you.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 04:21:04 AM by Joe Bentham »

Sean_A

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #34 on: September 05, 2007, 04:08:04 AM »
This course looks a cracker.  Are there anymore pix?  

BTW When I see a course with a lot of elevation change like this it makes me want to play from tees which take my fancy rather than from a certain set.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield & Alnmouth,

Garland Bayley

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #35 on: September 05, 2007, 02:21:51 PM »
This course looks a cracker.  Are there anymore pix?  

BTW When I see a course with a lot of elevation change like this it makes me want to play from tees which take my fancy rather than from a certain set.

Ciao

Try the pics here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=29473

and here:

http://www.golfclubatlas.com/forums2/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=29489
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

RJ_Daley

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2007, 02:52:39 PM »
Going back and reviewing those links, and savoring the photos, and I just can't get enough.  I am unable to restrain my enthusiasm for the golf course.  

Please, won't the powers that be consider a King's Putter there next year!  I must get back ASAP.  There is enough golf out there to have fun alternate extra golf besides the official rounds of a KP.  How can a KP go wrong out there?  
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Richard Choi

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2007, 03:08:34 PM »
I have pictures of every hole at Chambers Bay here:

http://s188.photobucket.com/albums/z162/choiliciousforza/Chambers%20Bay/

I will be more than happy to share full versions of these as well.

RJ_Daley

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2007, 03:14:19 PM »
Richard, I'm gorging on the photos, thanks... I bookmarked you bucket.  I wish the course was built about two years earlier, so that it would be available soon for a big tournament.  Within a year or so, if I were within the Tacoma powers that be, I'd be rounding up sponsors and making a pitch to Champions or regular tour to get an event held here.  It is a no brainer to boost the area's profile.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 03:23:25 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Peter_Herreid

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #39 on: September 05, 2007, 03:25:02 PM »
Going back and reviewing those links, and savoring the photos, and I just can't get enough.  I am unable to restrain my enthusiasm for the golf course.  

Please, won't the powers that be consider a King's Putter there next year!  I must get back ASAP.  There is enough golf out there to have fun alternate extra golf besides the official rounds of a KP.  How can a KP go wrong out there?  

Excuse me, officer!

In spite of what happened in the 80's and 90's, we are not an annexed county of Northern California!  We are Washington, dammit!--I say no to KP, we can come up with something on our own!

Anyway, with a KP scheduled here, how would Jordan concentrate on his studies all year!!!

In all seriousness, I think that if such an event were to exist, it might have to be shortly before April 30th next year, when it is probably possible to get 36 holes in (10-11 hrs of golf) before dark, and yet the rate increase hasn't taken place (May 1st, 2008)--say April 26-27th, 2008, or something close to that...

Richard Choi

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2007, 03:31:27 PM »
Well, I know that there was a GCA event before the course opened. How about another GCA event now that the course is officially open and you won't have to hit off mats?

I agree next spring would be a good time as the course would have grown in more and hopefully the greens will be in better shape. And I am sure the weather will remind you every bit of Scotland ;).

We can even make it a tour of a local track by adding Gold Moutain (Olympic Course) which hosted 2006 Pub Links Championship.

RJ_Daley

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2007, 03:43:34 PM »
Not to try and lead the lad astray, but maybe Jordan would get a better edumacation in two days of a GCA outting, than H.S. standard fare in April.  Although I'm not actually sure if Jordan is a senior in H.S now or has matriculated to an institution of higher ed.

If no Kings Putter, how about a WPS as a theme/prize?  (Walls Pink Shirt)   ;D 8)
« Last Edit: September 05, 2007, 03:44:41 PM by RJ_Daley »
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Tim Pitner

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #42 on: September 06, 2007, 12:01:45 AM »
Can someone who's played it please tell me what's so great about this golf course.  I have to admit, from the photos alone, I don't see it.  The "Narrows" hole looks pretty cool, the water is nice, but I don't like what appears to be the overwhelming, "quarry" character of the place.  At first blush, it looks like a poor man's Bandon Dunes (and I'm referring to the original course at BD).  Somewhat harsh, I know, but I'm not sure what everyone, including people who haven't played it and are just looking at the same photos I am, is gushing about.  
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 12:02:48 AM by Tim Pitner »

Jordan Wall

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #43 on: September 06, 2007, 12:25:18 AM »
Can someone who's played it please tell me what's so great about this golf course.  I have to admit, from the photos alone, I don't see it.  The "Narrows" hole looks pretty cool, the water is nice, but I don't like what appears to be the overwhelming, "quarry" character of the place.  At first blush, it looks like a poor man's Bandon Dunes (and I'm referring to the original course at BD).  Somewhat harsh, I know, but I'm not sure what everyone, including people who haven't played it and are just looking at the same photos I am, is gushing about.  

Tim,

In my opinion, the Narrows is the worst hole on the course, though with possibly the best green.  It isn't a bad hole though, which means the rest of the holes are darn good.

The fairway contours, on each hole, are awesome.  Sometimes the contours are subtle, sometimes large.  Often the case, is that the fairways are so wide, that hitting to the wrong portion of the fairway results in a very severe lie, where as driving in the correct portion affords the player a somewhat better lie.

The greens are top notch.  There slopes where there needs to be.  Some are big, and again, some are subtle.  The water has a lot to do with how the putts break.  This makes reading the greens tricky.  A great feature about the greens is that it really makes the good putters shine.  If you can't putt very well, then dont expect to do well at Chambers, because the greens will eat you up.  If your a good putter, that aspect of your game will most certainly shine at Chambers Bay.

The variety of holes is awesome.  Right after you begin to think the course is finally beginning to get easy, you are smacked in the face by a huge hole.  Right when you think the course is unbearable, a hole allowing low scores awaits.  There are so many different holes and types of shots to play.  There a bite as much as you can holes, and holes holes with centerline bunkers.  Skyline greens, boomerang greens, and greens benched tightly between dunes and against hills.  The are downhill and uphill holes of all kind, from holes that gradually go uphill to holes that are flat that have a steep climb uphill on a shot.  There are shots that require the ground game to get close, and chip shots you have to aim 40 feet past the hole to have any hope of getting close.

Some of the holes are simply amazing too.  I played #16 to a back pin from 135 out and played to 40 feet as the shot was too scary to attempt.  Even for the best of players, going for that pin requires great precision.  Not to mention the best way to attack that hole is a drive that lies in the fairway as close to the waste area as possible.
While everyone talks of the beauty of #10, I can attest to there being some real strategy there too.  Try going for a back pin from the right half of the fairway.  You go to your ball and wonder if you are aiming for a random green or if the pin is really located somewhere.  You wont be able to see the pin, and there is no chance at getting cloe, even with a wedge in hand.  In fact, a wedge shot on number ten can be one of the most ticklish shots on the course.  
And then, #14.  Are you kidding me?  I dont even know if there is a better hole in WA (imo).  You can go left of the bunker and risk going in the waste area, with success resulting in a huge boost forward and a short club into the skyline green.  Or, play safe, which is easy, and play a shot with a 3-wood and use amazing contours to boost the ball on the green.  Or, of course, completely miss your tee shot and end up in the biggest single fairway bunker on the entire course.  

Tim, I cant speak enough of the course.  Not to mention the routing, which although some say could better, is great.  I believe the way the course is routed is pure genius.  To begin at the water, and then move away and have this huge array of sand greet you at four.  It almost makes you glad you went away from the water.  The course then meanders up and down hills before it gets to fifteen, a little par three that is right back on the water.  The finishing holes are on the water (only tee shot on eighteen, and barely) and the player is left on a complete high note.  

So yes, that is as well as I can sum it up, Tim.
 :)

Joe Bentham

Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #44 on: September 06, 2007, 02:25:01 AM »
I don't like what appears to be the overwhelming, "quarry" character of the place.  At first blush, it looks like a poor man's Bandon Dunes
Tim-
It stands to reason that the sites past use as a 'quarry' would leave a lasting imprint on the property.  Chambers is an interesting golfing experience because of this, not in spite of it.  
The proximity to water, similarities in turf grass and superb routing at each are where I see the similarities to Bandon Dunes ending.  As I said before the golf course I've played that I was reminded of the most is Stone Eagle in Palm Desert.  Similar severely sloped property, Similar approach to grassing multiple fairways together and tuff uphill holes at each

Tim Pitner

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #45 on: September 06, 2007, 11:31:08 AM »
Jordan and Joe,

Thank you for your comments.  

Joe, I guess my point about the quarry is that, IMHO, it's a much lesser site than, say, Bandon Dunes and the quality of the course may have a lower ceiling because of that.  In other words, even if it's the best quarry course in the world, it might not be in the upper echelon of courses.  Perhaps it's just a personal bias--I don't like quarries that much.  
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 11:31:41 AM by Tim Pitner »

Garland Bayley

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #46 on: September 06, 2007, 11:56:39 AM »
Jordan and Joe,

Thank you for your comments.  

Joe, I guess my point about the quarry is that, IMHO, it's a much lesser site than, say, Bandon Dunes and the quality of the course may have a lower ceiling because of that.  In other words, even if it's the best quarry course in the world, it might not be in the upper echelon of courses.  Perhaps it's just a personal bias--I don't like quarries that much.  

If Bandon were a population center, there would be no Bandon Dunes. The neat thing about the quarry is that it saved the best real estate in the metropolitan area for a golf course, AND it created isolation from the population area.

Thank your lucky stars that Greg Norman was not allowed to come in and mess up beautiful land with unimaginative design like Red Sky Ranch.
"I enjoy a course where the challenges are contained WITHIN it, and recovery is part of the game  not a course where the challenge is to stay ON it." Jeff Warne

Mike Hendren

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #47 on: September 06, 2007, 01:26:56 PM »
I would not be surprised to see Chambers Bay and Bandon Dunes pass each other in the night as CB migrates up the GW Modern list and BD slides down.

On the split ten rounds test, I'd play CB 8 times.  

Mike
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Michael Dugger

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Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #48 on: September 06, 2007, 02:10:13 PM »
I would not be surprised to see Chambers Bay and Bandon Dunes pass each other in the night as CB migrates up the GW Modern list and BD slides down.

On the split ten rounds test, I'd play CB 8 times.  

Mike

That comment surprises me.  I'd place a good handful of holes from BD higher than Chamber's best.

16 at Bandon is all world.  #5 is epic.  #4....#14.....#1 to the old green.

Chambers has very cool one shotters.  It is a very cool setting.  It is almost too epic for my discriminating tastes, however.  I like a little mix of intimate and at Chambers you always feel exposed.  Bandon Dunes is more charming, IMHO.

Until the turf at Chambers Bay matures, I think it is preposterous to claim it is a better course than Bandon.  

It just isn't there yet...

What does it matter if the poor player can putt all the way from tee to green, provided that he has to zigzag so frequently that he takes six or seven putts to reach it?     --Alistair Mackenzie--

Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re:Chambers Bay pics/thoughts
« Reply #49 on: September 06, 2007, 02:19:00 PM »
Michael,

If #1 at BD is all world, epic or otherwise hyperbolic why on earth would they build an alternate green?

I will confess to be both surprising and preposterous, but like the late J. P. Richardson and Jerry Lee Lewis, I know what I like.

Quote
Oh baby you know what I like.
Chantilly lace and a pretty face
and a pony tail, hanging down.
A wiggle in the walk
A giggle in the talk
Makes the world go round
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 02:22:35 PM by Michael_Hendren »
Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

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