[Glenn Spencer]

Glen,

I did note that CS's events were held within 4 years.  But surely, many courses beat the tournament history of CS, even with 3 fairly significant (but not major) tournaments in 4 years.  I think it is a pretty big stretch to consider the US Women's Amateur, US Senior Open and a Western Open over 4 years as more significant than a US Amateur, US Open, and Walker Cup over 8 years.

I can't argue that!!!

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn,

If given the choice today I would drive the 3 hours it would take to play Crooked Stick over the 1 hour it would take for me to drive to Victoria.  Crooked Stick is truly a great course in every catagorie that matters to me.  I do believe that it is being thrown these leftover USGA events as a tribute to the career of Pete Dye.  It sickens me that the USGA refuses to give this great man and architect the US Open during his lifetime.  

To be honest, John. It hadn't dawned on me that this was the case. I agree with you completely. How long do you think it will be before Pete Dye GC hosts a USGA event??

[JohnV]

How about Pumpkin Ridge:

1993 & 1994 - Nike Tour Championship
1996 US Amateur
1997 US Women's Open
2000 US Junior & US Girls Junior
2003 US Women's Open
2006 US Women's Amateur (was supposed to be the Senior Open until the "Tradition" was moved to Portland)

[Glenn Spencer]

John,

That is an interesting point.  I wonder how the image of Crooked Stick would be changed if it was the home of the only PGA Championship of Tom Watson's career.  

Regardless, I still think it is just a function of the increase in the number of top quality golf courses.  You can't have a bunch of people screaming because Bandon Trails should be in and then complaining because some other course they like falls out.  Crooked Stick is an easy fall guy.  Nobody really cares about it.  Can you imagine the screams if someplace like Riviera ever fell out of the top 100?  They would revamp the entire system...

Chris,

I imagine with your knowledge you could find it. Could you tell me what is the highest ranking that CS has ever received by any of the big 3? My guess is that it is 39 or lower. Hard to sell me that it has fallen to 95 or out of the top 100 because of the new influx. 50? Maybe, but 95 or out??

[John Kavanaugh]

Glenn,

If given the choice today I would drive the 3 hours it would take to play Crooked Stick over the 1 hour it would take for me to drive to Victoria.  Crooked Stick is truly a great course in every catagorie that matters to me.  I do believe that it is being thrown these leftover USGA events as a tribute to the career of Pete Dye.  It sickens me that the USGA refuses to give this great man and architect the US Open during his lifetime.  

To be honest, John. It hadn't dawned on me that this was the case. I agree with you completely. How long do you think it will be before Pete Dye GC hosts a USGA event??

If this is the same Pete Dye course that hosted a Nationwide Tour event where a guy shot 60 I would say never.  I think that course was somewhere in the Virginias.

[Glenn Spencer]

How about Pumpkin Ridge:

1993 & 1994 - Nike Tour Championship
1996 US Amateur
1997 US Women's Open
2000 US Junior & US Girls Junior
2003 US Women's Open
2006 US Women's Amateur (was supposed to be the Senior Open until the "Tradition" was moved to Portland)

So close!!! Nationwide is not the Western though. US AM makes a tie or still to CS to me, but SOOOO close. Good Call.

[John Kavanaugh]

John,

That is an interesting point.  I wonder how the image of Crooked Stick would be changed if it was the home of the only PGA Championship of Tom Watson's career.  

Regardless, I still think it is just a function of the increase in the number of top quality golf courses.  You can't have a bunch of people screaming because Bandon Trails should be in and then complaining because some other course they like falls out.  Crooked Stick is an easy fall guy.  Nobody really cares about it.  Can you imagine the screams if someplace like Riviera ever fell out of the top 100?  They would revamp the entire system...

Chris,

I imagine with your knowledge you could find it. Could you tell me what is the highest ranking that CS has ever received by any of the big 3? My guess is that it is 39 or lower. Hard to sell me that it has fallen to 95 or out of the top 100 because of the new influx. 50? Maybe, but 95 or out??

Glenn,

Do not underestimate how cool it sounds for a rater to say that a course is not as great as it used to be after a restoration by the original architect. It is a form of reverse snobbery.   This is most common with Crooked Stick...much more so then lets say Pinehurst #2...I do not know why Dye does not set well with the intellectual crowd.  btw..I guess you saw the same Crosby Kids cartoon that I did..one of my favorite jokes of all time.

[Garland Bayley]

Impressive to say the least and so is Merion's, but CS has them all coming within 3 years.

Glenn,

Any software engineer can tell you that range is computed
high - low + 1
i.e.
2010 - 2007 + 1 = 4 years.
 

2007 US Women's AM- August

2010 BMW- August

36 months. Touche!!!

AHEM! 37 months

[Glenn Spencer]

John,

That is an interesting point.  I wonder how the image of Crooked Stick would be changed if it was the home of the only PGA Championship of Tom Watson's career.  

Regardless, I still think it is just a function of the increase in the number of top quality golf courses.  You can't have a bunch of people screaming because Bandon Trails should be in and then complaining because some other course they like falls out.  Crooked Stick is an easy fall guy.  Nobody really cares about it.  Can you imagine the screams if someplace like Riviera ever fell out of the top 100?  They would revamp the entire system...

Chris,

I imagine with your knowledge you could find it. Could you tell me what is the highest ranking that CS has ever received by any of the big 3? My guess is that it is 39 or lower. Hard to sell me that it has fallen to 95 or out of the top 100 because of the new influx. 50? Maybe, but 95 or out??

Glenn,

Do not underestimate how cool it sounds for a rater to say that a course is not as great as it used to be after a restoration by the original architect. It is a form of reverse snobbery.   This is most common with Crooked Stick...much more so then lets say Pinehurst #2...I do not know why Dye does not set well with the intellectual crowd.  btw..I guess you saw the same Crosby Kids cartoon that I did..one of my favorite jokes of all time.

John,

I have never heard of the Crosby Kids!! I can see why saying a course isn't as good as it used to be would help with the ladies. Seems ultra-cool to day.

[John Kavanaugh]

My fault...the name of the cartoon was Fat Albert and the Crosby Kids.

[Dan Kelly]

My fault...the name of the cartoon was Fat Albert and the Crosby Kids.

One of them was Nathaniel. I can't remember any of the others.

[John Kavanaugh]

Fat Albert and one of his friends (maybe the kid who now would illegally wear his hat over his eyes) went into a pawn shop with some lose change to buy a drum set.  The owner (a guy who strangely looked like Crosby) hands them the only thing they can afford, a broken drum stick saying "You can't beat it"...I must have been high to laugh and laugh like I did.

[Dan Kelly]

The owner (a guy who strangely looked like Crosby) hands them the only thing they can afford, a broken drum stick saying "You can't beat it"...I must have been high to laugh and laugh like I did.

Imagine how much funnier it would have been if Crosby had sung it: "You can't buh-buh-buh-beat it!"

Thanks for the memories.

[Joe Hancock]

Was the drumstick made of wood, or fried chicken?

Buh-buh-buh-bah-da-bum.......

J :)e

[John Kavanaugh]

Crosby made fun of the fat and disabled but I don't recall any racist humor.

[Chris_Clouser]

And I loved those JELLO ads that Crosby did...

[Joe Hancock]

Crosby made fun of the fat and disabled but I don't recall any racist humor.

I didn't mean it that way, the word drumstick has different meanings...kind of like "die"...which, I thought was pretty clever on your first post in this thread. If you are truly offended and question my intent, I'll remove it.

Joe

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm not offended..just pointing out how cartoons are not what they used to be because of political correctness.  I don't think even Fat Albert would fly today.

[Chris_Clouser]

Glenn,

That logic isn't just mine.  It is exactly what the club president said in his comments on the local radio show leading up to the Women's Am a couple of weeks ago.  He said that is the process that places have to go through with the USGA.  Schmooz, host a small tourney, schmooz some more, host a bigger tourney, keep schmoozing and hope they finally stop dangling that carrot and let you take a bite out of it.  He basically said the same exact thing I typed up.  So if the club pres at Crooked Stick and his spokespeople are saying it, then why would I disagree.  I'm sure they know more about it than either of us.

I'll see if I can find anything about the changes at Crooked Stick.  I just know it has changed a lot over the years since the first time I played it in 1990 or so.  I don't know the highest ranking the course ever had, but I would be surprised if it ever cracked the top 50.  I'm just guessing on that though.

[Joe Hancock]

Wasn't there a movie in recent years based on that character?

[John Kavanaugh]

I'm not in the mood but GolfDigest.com has a link where you can research all the past rankings.  I predict Crooked Stick was top 50 at one time.

[Dan Kelly]

I'm not offended..just pointing out how cartoons are not what they used to be because of political correctness.  I don't think even Fat Albert would fly today.

Neither would "The Road to Rio."

[Chris_Clouser]

I tried to find a link at the Golf Digest site, but there was nothing that came up.  So if someone can find it, please post it.  As of now the highest I can find is #74 per the Crooked Stick website.

Glenn,

The number of courses in the current Golf Digest list of top 100 that are younger than Crooked Stick is 51.  And that doesn't count all of the older courses that have moved into the top 100 for whatever reasons.

[Dan Kelly]

And I loved those JELLO ads that Crosby did...

The one set at Cypress Point was the best. You know, the one where Bob and Bing ate the bowl of pudding on the 16th tee.

[Glenn Spencer]

Glenn,

That logic isn't just mine.  It is exactly what the club president said in his comments on the local radio show leading up to the Women's Am a couple of weeks ago.  He said that is the process that places have to go through with the USGA.  Schmooz, host a small tourney, schmooz some more, host a bigger tourney, keep schmoozing and hope they finally stop dangling that carrot and let you take a bite out of it.  He basically said the same exact thing I typed up.  So if the club pres at Crooked Stick and his spokespeople are saying it, then why would I disagree.  I'm sure they know more about it than either of us.

I'll see if I can find anything about the changes at Crooked Stick.  I just know it has changed a lot over the years since the first time I played it in 1990 or so.  I don't know the highest ranking the course ever had, but I would be surprised if it ever cracked the top 50.  I'm just guessing on that though.

I will go along with that, as you are. I think CS is being led down the primrose path though.

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