Ant,

Here is a picture of how 6 green looked for the Senior Am...I am not an expert but it is what I define as dead.  I also am not saying it was Dan's fault.  This green is now fine but two others are dead by my definition.

Jeff,

That picture was taken by the super at the best possible angle.  The entire green was dead.  We have sub-air under every green on the course.  It is no longer used because our young super believes it is an failed technology.  The sad thing is that the guy who now is selling us fans is also from the sub-air company so he is gigging the ownership twice.

My earlier point about the July 2nd punching was that it could have simply been delayed until after the 4th.  It was not an emergency situation.

John,

Angle? If he didn't colorize the turf green, then its alive....

There are some supers who have been dissapointed with the fans, or used them primarily to suck moisture out when too wet rather than pump cool air in.

IMHO, the microclimate is 95% determinant of whether a green struggles.  Sub Air or anything else is at best 5% of the solution, although that green site doesn't look too tree'd from the pic. It must be sitting low or something else where air movement is bad.

My point about the slopes is that if the micro climate is bad, the slopes - particluarly on the rolling edges where mowers pass every day in the same direction are the first to go since they are under a lot more stress.

John,

Angle? If he didn't colorize the turf green, then its alive....

There are some supers who have been dissapointed with the fans, or used them primarily to suck moisture out when too wet rather than pump cool air in.

IMHO, the microclimate is 95% determinant of whether a green struggles.  Sub Air or anything else is at best 5% of the solution, although that green site doesn't look too tree'd from the pic. It must be sitting low or something else where air movement is bad.

My point about the slopes is that if the micro climate is bad, the slopes - particluarly on the rolling edges where mowers pass every day in the same direction are the first to go since they are under a lot more stress.

Jeff,

Is dead too strong a term...I can use unplayable, undesireable, crap..etc, etc...if that is more comfortable.  Do you find the look of the first picture to be satisfactory on a course that at most will get 11,000 rounds per year?

I do have a question for the supers who I understand might be getting offended by all of this.  How long after punch holes have healed should a membership have before the greens are punched again?  Should greens have continuous punch holes so they can remain healthy?

No. But the greens should have a variety of grass that will withstand the most extreme stresses possible in your climate and the green's microclimate, and should be cut and watered to minimize the potential damage from stress. They should be designed to withstand stress, not just to satisfy an ideal of how a green should look, or how it should roll, in normal conditions.

Greens are tempermental, and a lot of the problems come from their design, not their maintenance.

As to your particular case, you know best--or at least someone does. Is there no one defending the superintendent at your course?

John,

I shouldn't answer the specific question on aeration, but most courses around here do it at least twice a year, and some up to four times a year, maybe more. When I worked at a course for the summer so long ago, we had clay greens and were trying to convert to sand via aerification - taking out the plugs once a month and replacing with sand.  That year, there were holes all the time.  So, it varies.

Your comments have that same tinge of "super doesn't know what he is doing" and sound like the "typical member after a few cold ones" today.  I don't know enough about the situation to comment intelligently, but will side with the super over these kind of comments until I do.  

If he generally keeps them well, but suffered for brief periods, do you really think he forgot everything he knows?  Chances are, one of his educated guesses (that all supers make every day) was wrong initially. Some possible issues include various bugs and neamtodes, fungus, etc. or water quality which can stress greens in tougher conditions.  These are not always easy conditions to assess immediately. Even "ramping up" conditions for big events at the wrong time agronomically can be very stressful to turf, but sometimes necessary.  

Please consider that the climate is just tough this year.  The USGA Green Section did a study of dead greens some years back.  About 2% of US courses experience some dead greens every year.  Most years showed concentrations in certain regions (yes there were some dreadful mistakes) where there had been unusually difficult weather - either ice from the winter, but mostly heat, humidity or drought during the growing season.  

If your super is recommending more fans, it seems he believes its an air circulation problem, which is VERY common.  Look around to see if the suffering greens are all tree surrounded, or in valleys or other areas where the wind is still.  Then you can report back to us with a more informed complaint.

BTW, if members wouldn't complain, I would say its a great time to de-tree a few greens in the name of better turf.

Jeff,

Here is a picture of the latest dead green that currently has four portable fans sitting on top of it with a generator in the bunker.  Obviously with the lake near by it is not an air circulation problem that killed it...hint..it is not a lack of water either.  yea, I see the shade, damn golf course photographers.

John:

"The owners do fully support Dan as they should.  I am not saying Dan is the problem or that the dead greens are even his fault.  I think they will eventually all become alive again when fans are installed on every green and they are punched every May, July and Sept and kept very slow.  Yippee..."

So it is a design issue, right?

Actually, I can't possibly know what the situation is at your course.

All I know is that in general supers are blamed for a lot that is not their fault, and not thanked for a lot that they do.

David,

I have a bias in favor of architects and based partially on that and the great conditioning we have had in the past will not say it is a design fault.

I would support ripping up all the greens and planting another grass if that is what it takes before we end up with monster green fans on every hole that run from March to December.  They were on in April this year with 40 deg temps so I don't know yet when they will be shut down...guessing Thanksgiving.

Final comment:

At my home course in the Low Country of South Carolina, the greens are maddeningly slow at certain times of the year, and very quick at others.
This is not poor maintenance--it is good maintenance, preparing the course to accept the stresses of a harsh and variable climate.

Our super is neither young nor old, but he has a thick skin and a strong personality--pretty necessary traits, I think. Will he get too old? My guess is that he will tire of us before we tire of him.

John,

If you see shadows on the green at what appears to be high noon, you could have a problem.  Sometimes, even when the lake allows open winds, they "eddy" when the hit an obstacle, like trees near greens.  Depending on the prevailing wind, its often a good idea to cut wind chutes through the trees in that direction, even if leaving the rest of the trees.

I can't tell from the picture if the water in that lake gets into your irrigation system and hits the green.....nor if there is any water quality issues, just by looking.  I suggest some water tests but wouldn't be surprised if your qualified super had done them already.

Jeff,

Here is a different angle from Ran's writeup.  I hope he does get the water checked...for too much of it.

John K...just because your greens were alive one year is no guarentee they'll be alive the next year...even if the maintinance hasn't changed..

I'm generally smart enough to know what I don't know, and although I have worked as a greens keeper, I am not a Superintendent......but I do have experience in the transition zone with bent grass and Sub-air systems, with much of this knowledge coming from a super Super....named David Downing [of GCSAA fame].

Dave has been able to consult and grow great bent grass turf for us...and he is a big proponent of Sub-air systems in our hot, humid conditions.

He uses Sub-air to extract the heated ground water that can sit in a green complex which can actually stew the root system of cool season grasses.....which happens when the ground temps reach high levels combined with the reduced breathability of the sub soil layer.
This and a lot of other hocus pocus.

Makes sense to me.

Maybe it might make sense at VN......and Dave consults...and since you already have the system....I'm sure his initial $.02 will be much cheaper than a fan....but who knows?...not me.