If it was a par 4, most would go for it no matter what. As a 5, they will only go for it if they hit the perfect drive. To me, that is not exciting.

Who wants to watch Goosen lay up on #13 at Augusta? Boring. Make that a par 4 and he won't lay up either.

Jim, I have never understood the logic of statements like this or the fascination with par in major championships, whether it is 70, 71, 72, or 73.

On 2- or 3-shot holes the best players in the world are trying to make 2s, 3s, and 4s, and trying to take 5, 6, 7, and more out of play when they must or can.  They are concerned about "dropping shots" vs. the field.  If everyone in the field makes 5 on a certain hole, they "drop a shot" only when their score is worse than the field, or I suppose, relative to the score they thought they should be making on the hole.  

If the lovely Ms. Gulbis is standing on the 17th tee on Sunday with 272 accumulated strokes and Ms. Creamer is already cooling her fetching self in the clubhouse at 280, Ms. Gulbis only knows that she must take no more than 8 to tie, 7 to win on the last two holes.  What difference does it make what the card says    It's going to be exciting to watch, and not just because of Natalie's outfit!

If she plays conservatively on 17 and makes 5, then she needs 3 to tie on 18.  If she plays aggressively on 17 and makes 3 or 4, she has given herself more ways to win and fewer to lose on 18.  Of course, she could also make 6 or more in a hurry at 17 with aggressive plays that go wrong.  

This simple risk-reward calculation doesn't change when the committee puts a 5 on the scorecard at 17.   A 5 on the card doesn't change the fundamental puzzle that is the Road Hole.  If Reteif elects to lay up on 13 at Augusta and loses by a shot because of that choice, then he failed to make the right decision.  The Committee had nothing to do with it.

Kalen's questions are the right ones to be asking.  Alas, I haven't played the course, so I can't comment on those.

what a great picture of Creamer...reminds us that the game is supposed to be fun...I'll bet her and the rest of the ladies are having a BLAST at TOC

Golf isn't supposed to be fun!  It was invented by the Scottish!

Sean,

Are you caddying for her in the Open itself?  If so, and assuming she makes the cut and the pairing survives, I'lllook out for you on Sunday.

Suprisingly 16 playing toughest for the women in light winds.  I'm sure this wouldn't be the case for the men.

Unsuprisingly 13 isn't far behind

17 is playing as the perfect par 4.5 and easiest hole against par of 5.  If assessed as a Par 4 it would be touch and go with 16 and 13 for toughest hole.  

At this stage I'd have to say they'd have been better of leaving it as a Par 4 and playing 13 as a Par 5 from the tees 20 yards behind the set they're using.

Kalen:  As to your #3 - I believe that the greens will get the best of them.  It has always seemed to me that most LPGA players are pitiful on long putts, especially with all the movement @TOC

Tom,

I had exactly the same thought this morning. The one LPGA event I've seen in person reinforced my impression from watching on TV and watching a few women's NCAA tournaments. At each level, the chipping differences between men and women are astounding but surprsingly the women also lack touch on putts outside of 40 feet or so.

I don't know if there's any common factor between weak chipping and weak lag putting but I've only seen a couple of women who played those two kinds of shots as well as a decent high-school boy golfer.

Quote from: Tom Roewer on August 02, 2007, 07:54:23 AM

Kalen:  As to your #3 - I believe that the greens will get the best of them.  It has always seemed to me that most LPGA players are pitiful on long putts, especially with all the movement @TOC

Tom,

I had exactly the same thought this morning. The one LPGA event I've seen in person reinforced my impression from watching on TV and watching a few women's NCAA tournaments. At each level, the chipping differences between men and women are astounding but surprsingly the women also lack touch on putts outside of 40 feet or so.

I don't know if there's any common factor between weak chipping and weak lag putting but I've only seen a couple of women who played those two kinds of shots as well as a decent high-school boy golfer.

Brent,

Thats where everything I've heard really seperates the men from the women.  Learning to hit a driver and irons is pretty much all mechanics, which can be taught.

But when it comes to touch and feel around the green and being able to focus in on a specific problem and solve it, it seems the ladies come up a bit short.

Anyone seen or heard of any 4 jacks yet at TOC??

Do all the R & A Opens come as  a package now or what? TNT shows 2 whole hours of the Seniors and now what is the most important Womens Championship in my lifetime, they are showing 2 hours. Do they just buy the package and put this on out of obligation? 2 hours?

A quick google search will tell you that TNT bought the package of R & A Opens. A look at the sports/golf section of TNT's website will show that they don't even mention the women along side the 3 men's events they highlight.

And you thought you were sexist!

Someone named Jordan posted the following on Geoff S's site.

"According to St. Andrew's website, 17 is normally played as a par 5 by ladies. That said, for the Ladies' Open, given the caliber of players, it should play as a par 4, There is a forward tee they could use that still brings the Old Course Hotel fence into play. So that excuse is a canard."

I believe the excuse he is referring to is the statement that they didn't want to use the forward tees so they could preserve the driving line over the shed.

I think they shouldn't be using the forward tees, because they never do anywhere else, but that is a different matter.

If the Jordan is the Jordan we all know and love, we know he has never been there. Is he right about the line from the forward tees? It would appear in the picture I looked at that the forward tee is oriented towards driving parallel to the fence, not over it. Is the tee too close to the fence to take the line over the sheds? Would you have to use a higher lofted club from the forward tees to get it over the sheds?

Statistical evaluation of the first round:

Hardest hole v Par : 13 (4.64)  (17 = 4.66)
Easiest v Par : 18 (3.92) followed closely by 9 then 10

The suprises for me were:

8 (3.28) playing almost as hard as 11 (3.36) especially when for half the field it was played in little to no wind.  It will be interesting to see with a little more wind whether the gap lengthens.

5 playing significantly harder than 14 (5.25 v 4.95).  The wind was mostly from the West so across both holes and later in the day moving to a tail wind for 14.  Even so I would have expected this to be at least closer if not reversed.

16 playing so hard.  It's not long and half the field played it with a tail wind pushing their ball away from the OB.

The reverse of the usual hard finish.  The last five holes played 15, 8, 2, 18, 17.  This changes to 16, 9, 3, 1, 18 with 17 as a par 4.  Still not the most daunting finish.

9 and 10 weren't the birdie fest it can be for the men (3.95 and 4.01 respectively)

25 Birdies on 11 seems like a high number.  I dare say a lot of those were before 2pm when the wind got up a little.

With the notable exception of Ochoa a top ten of Europeans and more experienced golfers.  From what I saw of the first round Ochoa seemed to have an understanding of the ground game that the younger American golfers didn't have.  She certainly had a better feel with her short game than anyone else I caught on the TV coverage.

Planning on going along to St A tomorrow. Have IMed Walshy and hoping to arrange a meet-up. Any other GCAers gonna be around the Auld Toun? Chris? Anyone? Bueller? Bueller???

cheers
FBD.

Really surprised that no one has mentiond the pathetic speed of play .

Rounds taking up to 6.5 hours !

And of course , its the course and its double greens that are to blame .

It isnt helped by golfers not knowing basic rules of golf , like Se Ri Pak who needed 8 minutes waiting time , to be told how to proceed with a drop out of the swilcan burn .

In my view , slow play has plummeted new depths this week , and what do they do about it ?

Nothing , blame the course !

Pathetic  

Brian and Dan,

Couldn't agree more.  My other bugbear is seasoned Pros needing to be told by their caddie whether they are in line with the target.  I saw Inkster doing this, she's only been on the tour 25 odd years you'd think she'd know where she's lined up.  Sheesh.

Same goes for caddies standing behind and making sure the putter is square to the target.  

As far as I could see even when groups dropped 1 and a half holes behind they weren't put on the clock.  Saw caddies stepping out the yardage to the pin on 18from fifty yards away.  It's a feel shot anyway why the need for an exact yardage.  Yet another minute gone.