have you been to Dornoch?

James, sadly I haven't been to Dornoch.  In fact I haven't really been anywhere, so you should take any of my musings with a grain of salt.  Someone must have some pictures of this 'feature' though.

Do you agree there is often less thought involved in the recovery shots at StAB.  Given the transition from green to the often vast short grass surrounds is regularly level and any movement around the greens usually fairly constant, was the construction perhaps too minimalist?

D

James,

That is more of an indictment upon them and their sad lack of ingenuity and imagination, not too mention skill and intelligence.

If you miss the first green, depending upon the flag location, you have numerous options - a bump and run into the bank, a pitch, or you could try pitching into the side of the hill and letting the ball roll across, but that requires all of the above qualities, which are clearly sadly lacking in the populace of Melbourne, apart from one or two enlightened individuals of course.

Ditto with three.  A miss short can be a putt, a chip or a pitch into the side of the hill.  A miss long can be a putt or a chip around the banks.

A miss long at eight can be a putt certainly - but a chip and run is a perfectly reasonable proposition, and so to is the pitch.  I don't see why a putter is the choice if you miss short on eight, but then I have clearly been gifted with qualities others lack, so such mundane options aren't attractive.

Same with nine - a miss short can be a pitch or a bump into the bank.  I fail to see how the putter could be an option for anyone other than a zombie, or a US Presidential candidate.   Miss left, and the putter is a more attractive option - but a chip into the bank or a little pitch, or even a flop could also be used.

Do you agree there is often less thought involved in the recovery shots at StAB.  Given the transition from green to the often vast short grass surrounds is regularly level and any movement around the greens usually fairly constant, was the construction perhaps too minimalist?

James L

not sure if you posed this question to me specifically, but I will try to answer it, albeit obtusely.  Firstly, I have only played St A B once so I won't comment on my personal experience with such shots.  I can't remember whether I bumped and ran, putted, pitched or hit greens in regulation (I don't think it was the latter).  I do recall having a hell of a time trying to tell whether 5 foot putts broke left, right or were straight.  Those putts were probably for par following an ineffectivegreenside recovery.

You said you chose to use a six-iron every time, whilst others might go with a putter every time.  How often did you get up and down using this approach?  Could you have done better by playing a different shot - perhaps a pitch on some occasions?  

Perhaps this range of greenside recovery options and choices should be viewed as similar to a 'strategic' golf hole whereby an easier route can be taken that avoids the bunkers, but makes a par more difficult.  And perhaps the addition of longer-grass at random spots at Dornoch adds a 'penal' aspect where such a hazard has to be avoided (by an aerial shot).  The Dornoch approach reduces the recovery options occasionally, the US Open approach (excluding Pinehurst #2 of course) specifies a single recovery shot (a lob), and the St Andrews Beach allows the player to choose what they wish, even if it isn't necessarily the best approach.

So, the US Open approach requires the least thought (lob every time) and the St Andrews Beach approach requires the most thought.  The other dimension is that Dornoch limits the options on occasion, forcing a player to vary his method.  Whereas St Andrews Beach does not force this limitation as often.

James B

Jim,
  An indictment of his short game. Easily the weakest part of Jack's game. Of course just think how many majors he would have won with a short game.

Jim,
  An indictment of his short game. Easily the weakest part of Jack's game. Of course just think how many majors he would have won with a short game.

I agree, Ed, about his game.  That was my point, actually.  That mostly using one club for short-game shots may say more about the player than the course.

I also think Jack could have won 30 majors, if he had a great short game, instead of an average one.  

Amazing how much heated discussion this place generates.

Why is it that Americans who have never seen the place - as well as those who have, of course - appear to understand it better than those who have played it?

Do you agree there is often less thought involved in the recovery shots at StAB.  Given the transition from green to the often vast short grass surrounds is regularly level and any movement around the greens usually fairly constant, was the construction perhaps too minimalist?

James

This may be the case for some but I found it quite the opposite. I was constantly tossing up between bump and run / putter / wedge options.

Much like James L I also found myself falling back on the same recovery shot (or club) around the greens on most holes.

However, this is more due to the fact that I lack the ability to hit some of the subtle shots demanded of me when I missed the green, not an inherent design flaw in the green complexes themselves.

Greens like 2,3,5,7,8,10,14,15 and 17 all seemed to me to have many options in mode of recovery, depending on where you missed and how adept you are at executing a certain shot type.

I will also agree that it is a unique course as far as Australia goes, but no more so than than National Old.  They are both fantastic golf courses, and both unique in their own ways.

In my experience, National Old is like nothing I've ever played before.  The gunnamatta does have more of a 'familiar' feel to it if you have played much golf in the UK.

David,

Many holes also have one side that recovery shots are, or can be, quite difficult, but the other side of the green they are merely trickily precise.

Front, back and left side of two, right side of four, right side of 12 and 14 are the best examples.

^thats a cart path.

Mark, what does this all mean for the members who forked out the dollars for lifetime memberships in the early days?