[JohnV]

Paul, I don't believe anyone believes Steroids are the abused substances. Do you? What about Amatuers? Will the USGA have to follow suit because it would necessitate creating a new rule. Wouldn't it?

No new rule would be required.  It is a condition of the competition that you can pass a drug test, just like one that requires you to wear soft spikes.

The players in the World Amateur Championship were tested this year in South Africa.  The USGA had no problem with that.

[Adam Clayman]

JVB-
 Pass a drug test testing for what?

It is no surprise that the Uniited States Golf Association would have no problem with an event held in South Africa. Is it?

[Doug Ralston]

Holy Jesus;

This is MY Country! What about you?

Mandatory drug tests? No 'probable cause' needed? An error ends the career of an all-time great, perhaps? How about a 'Gitmo' somewhere in Florida for 'illegal competitors'?

Get the hell away from my Constitution and violate the one in your fascist fantasy Country where people are NEVER afforded rights, where whispers of 'secret' informants can ruin enemies, and where golf is only played by those lucky enough to never have any of the implied dangers of Big Brother fall upon them.

And never NEVER say to me 'why not, if they have nothing to hide' ....... because one career of mine WAS ruined by a rumor proved false yet treated as if true. You are indeed a fool if you think 'nothing to hide' means no need for privacy! Out! Out, you hear!

All that said, show reasonable 'probable cause' that Phil Mickelson et al  have violated a law, and I will be for investigation.

This is MY Country!

Doug

[JR Potts]

Holy Jesus;

This is MY Country! What about you?

Mandatory drug tests? No 'probable cause' needed? An error ends the career of an all-time great, perhaps? How about a 'Gitmo' somewhere in Florida for 'illegal competitors'?

Get the hell away from my Constitution and violate the one in your fascist fantasy Country where people are NEVER afforded rights, where whispers of 'secret' informants can ruin enemies, and where golf is only played by those lucky enough to never have any of the implied dangers of Big Brother fall upon them.

And never NEVER say to me 'why not, if they have nothing to hide' ....... because one career of mine WAS ruined by a rumor proved false yet treated as if true. You are indeed a fool if you think 'nothing to hide' means no need for privacy! Out! Out, you hear!

All that said, show reasonable 'probable cause' that Phil Mickelson et al  have violated a law, and I will be for investigation.

This is MY Country!

Doug

Probable cause has no place when an athlete chooses to avail himself of the benefits that the Tour provides.  Test em' all.

[Voytek Wilczak]

Holy Jesus;

This is MY Country! What about you?

Mandatory drug tests? No 'probable cause' needed? An error ends the career of an all-time great, perhaps? How about a 'Gitmo' somewhere in Florida for 'illegal competitors'?

Get the hell away from my Constitution and violate the one in your fascist fantasy Country where people are NEVER afforded rights, where whispers of 'secret' informants can ruin enemies, and where golf is only played by those lucky enough to never have any of the implied dangers of Big Brother fall upon them.

And never NEVER say to me 'why not, if they have nothing to hide' ....... because one career of mine WAS ruined by a rumor proved false yet treated as if true. You are indeed a fool if you think 'nothing to hide' means no need for privacy! Out! Out, you hear!

All that said, show reasonable 'probable cause' that Phil Mickelson et al  have violated a law, and I will be for investigation.

This is MY Country!

Doug

Are you completely out of your mind?

Many employers in "YOUR" country have been performing random drug and alcohol testing in the workplace - for years.

Nothing illegal or unconstitutional (or un-American) about it.

You take their money, you get tested.

[Dan_Callahan]

The idea that steroids wouldn't help a pro gain distance is wrong.

Last year, I posted on this site about my experience with creatine. Combined with diligent weight training, the supplement helped me quickly add strength and weight. Those gains had a significant impact on the distance I was hitting driver and irons.

This was a perfectly legal drug that can be purchased at any GNC. Obviously, the steroids that are out there would have an even greater impact. With the money at stake on the pro tour, it is naive to think that players aren't taking advantage of this. It is happening in every other sport—why would golf be the exception?

A player who is using steroids is cheating. The only way to prevent it is to test.

[JR Potts]

The idea that steroids wouldn't help a pro gain distance is wrong.

Last year, I posted on this site about my experience with creatine. Combined with diligent weight training, the supplement helped me quickly add strength and weight. Those gains had a significant impact on the distance I was hitting driver and irons.

This was a perfectly legal drug that can be purchased at any GNC. Obviously, the steroids that are out there would have an even greater impact. With the money at stake on the pro tour, it is naive to think that players aren't taking advantage of this. It is happening in every other sport—why would golf be the exception?

A player who is using steroids is cheating. The only way to prevent it is to test.

Dan, you are exactly right.  My 2nd year of college, Creatine was at the pinnacle of its popularity.  Our whole team was put on a strick weight program and given as much Creatine as we wanted.  Of course I took it.  That winter, I went from 190 to 215 and was hitting the ball better and farther than ever.  Combined with a flexibility program, the extra muscle does wonders for distance.

If I could only get back to 190 now....or 215 for that matter.

[Walt_Cutshall]

To those who don't think performance enhancers won't help golfers, consider this. Hitting it far is about generating more speed. Look at how many times world class sprinters have been nailed for drugs. They are all about speed.

[Doug Ralston]

Voytek;

First, yes, i do indeed believe random drug tests [no probable cause] is a violation of the Constitution. Unfortunately, SCOTUS only gets there when it does [read about Plessy v Ferguson and consider].

Second, PGA Pros are independent contractors. I doubt they would remain that long if they allowed random testing or other 'improbables' to be pressed upon them.

Third, liberty is not EVER protected by giving 'just a little' away because you might not need it right now. Once gone, it is hard to recover.

"Those who would give up a little liberty for security deserve neither, nor do they get it" Ben Franklin

Words like 'probable cause'; as well as 'Habeas Corpus', are not just slogans. They are living things we must treasure FAR beyond worrying if some cheater is taking drugs to play better golf, or baseball. Again; once dead, it is hard to bring them forth anew. Let history be my witness.

If you think VJ is so strong because of Andro, then gather some evidence against HIM, find his source, trace the money, note the actual changes, THEN get a JUDGE to say you have 'probable cause'. Off you go with your testing! Otherwise, let Tiger and Sergio take care of him.

Doug

[John Kirk]

I believe performance enhancing substances are being used in professional golf.  There's no systematic testing, and improved performance may make the difference in tens of millions in prizes and endorsements.  I believe it's naive to think otherwise.

On the other hand, everywhere you go, there's a guy at the golf course who hits the ball as far as the pros do.  I still think drug use of virtually all major sports is pervasive.

One should be very careful about naming players you suspect are using.

[JR Potts]

Voytek;

First, yes, i do indeed believe random drug tests [no probable cause] is a violation of the Constitution. Unfortunately, SCOTUS only gets there when it does [read about Plessy v Ferguson and consider].

Second, PGA Pros are independent contractors. I doubt they would remain that long if they allowed random testing or other 'improbables' to be pressed upon them.

Third, liberty is not EVER protected by giving 'just a little' away because you might not need it right now. Once gone, it is hard to recover.

"Those who would give up a little liberty for security deserve neither, nor do they get it" Ben Franklin

Words like 'probable cause'; as well as 'Habeas Corpus', are not just slogans. They are living things we must treasure FAR beyond worrying if some cheater is taking drugs to play better golf, or baseball. Again; once dead, it is hard to bring them forth anew. Let history be my witness.

If you think VJ is so strong because of Andro, then gather some evidence against HIM, find his source, trace the money, note the actual changes, THEN get a JUDGE to say you have 'probable cause'. Off you go with your testing! Otherwise, let Tiger and Sergio take care of him.

Doug

Doug, I love your attention to the constitution.  However, the PGA, like the NFL, MLB, NHL, etc. is an enterprise allowing these players to make a living.  It is a private organization.  As such, they can regulate test any way they wish.  If the players don't want to give up their private liberty, then they should showcase their skills publicly and ditch the PGA and other athletic organzations.

However, that would require them giving up a lot of money....like almost all of it.

Forfeiture of privacy can be bought.

[Matt_Sullivan]

Yes, I am surprised how often people use the limitations on GOVERNMENT power expressed in the US consititution to try and limit  the rights of private individuals or institutions to set certain rules about access or participation.

As far as I can see there is nothing to stop the PGA Tour imposing reasonable rules for participation. I think drug testing would be a good idea. I think abuses are most likely taking place and the "our players would never do a terrible thing like tha" is a crappy non-answer and cop-out

[Jay Flemma]

Absolutely Matt...this is a private endeavor, not a matter of governmental search and seizure.

String 'em up...every last one of them.  On second thought, hanging is too good for them.

[Adam Clayman]

Maybe they should piss test the politicians first?

I doubt they'd fare as well as the golfers.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=a4og9vpnIc74&refer=home

[JESII]

Interesting to read that testing is a possibility if suspicions arise for PGA Tour guys. That's a good thing.

[JR Potts]

The U.S. PGA Tour said it will create a list of banned substances and start informing players about their effects and the penalties of drug use. The world's richest tour only tests golfers if the commissioner or a player has reason to believe someone is using banned substances.

I don't know if I like that.  Why not test them all...randomly.  This method makes the least sense, from a fairness and legal perspective, of all the possible options for testing.

[JESII]

The U.S. PGA Tour said it will create a list of banned substances and start informing players about their effects and the penalties of drug use. The world's richest tour only tests golfers if the commissioner or a player has reason to believe someone is using banned substances.

I don't know if I like that.  Why not test them all...randomly.  This method makes the least sense, from a fairness and legal perspective, of all the possible options for testing.

That may be Ryan, care to ellaborate?

My comment was just based on me thinking it's good they don't have their eyes closed to a potential problem.

[JR Potts]

The U.S. PGA Tour said it will create a list of banned substances and start informing players about their effects and the penalties of drug use. The world's richest tour only tests golfers if the commissioner or a player has reason to believe someone is using banned substances.

I don't know if I like that.  Why not test them all...randomly.  This method makes the least sense, from a fairness and legal perspective, of all the possible options for testing.

That may be Ryan, care to ellaborate?

My comment was just based on me thinking it's good they don't have their eyes closed to a potential problem.

Let's take the easiest hypotheticals. [AND THEY ARE ONLY HYPOTHETICALS AND ARE NOT INDICTMENTS]

1) Tiger gets tested.  And only Tiger gets tested.  Tiger tests positive.  Who do you think will be all over this?  I would take the case against the PGA Tour.

2) Michelle Wie gets tested.  And only Michelle gets tested.  Michelle tests positive.  Who do you think will be all over this?  I would take the case against the PGA Tour.

See, the problem is, when you fail to enforce/implement a policy in an unequal and arbitrary manner, you are opening yourself up to huge potential liabilities and potential criticism.

In a game that is often critiqued as being racist, exclusionary and unprogressive, the PGA Tour can't afford a misstep.

My bet is these words are a red-herring to distract from the Tour's true intent to test nobody.

[Jim Nugent]

Would steroids really improve your game?  They could help make you stronger, and perhaps longer.  But they bring with them a whole slew of negative side effects that could greatly harm your game.  Here is a paragraph I saw online that briefly describes this:

"Administration of AS (anabolic steroids)  may affect behavior. Increased testosterone levels in the blood are associated with masculine behavior, aggressiveness and increased sexual desire. Increased aggressiveness may be beneficial for athletic training, but may also lead to overt violence outside the gym or the track. There are reports of violent, criminal behavior in individuals taking AS. Other side effects of AS are euphoria, confusion, sleeping disorders, pathological anxiety, paranoia, and hallucinations."

None of that would bode well for your golf game.  I wonder if there is any experience of how steroids or other drugs impact the overall game, not just length off the tee?  

[Adam Clayman]

Jim, It's readily apparent most people believe driving distance is their(especially the pros) golf game. I couldn't agree more with your post and less with them, they etc.

[JESII]

I'm no expert by any means, but I think the performance enhancing drug world goes way beyond Anabolic Steroids.

Perhaps they all contribute to higher testosterone levels and therefore might have the same side effects, I don't know.

I firmly believe an educated program could provide substantial benefits to a golf game. Therefore I think the ruling bodies should get out front on this.

What is the worst case scenario for the PGA Tour if some form of testing were to become mandatory?

[JR Potts]

Jim, It's readily apparent most people believe driving distance is their(especially the pros) golf game. I couldn't agree more with your post and less with them, they etc.

My belief doesn’t relate to driving distance, per se.  I think the bigger issue is the affects of HGH and other cocktails on the endurance and physical sustainability of these athletes.  HGH and other steroids allow athletes to recover from injuries and fatigue faster than others.  In a seemingly never-ending Tour season where players are constantly flying around the world, such a drug could conceivably be a HUGE godsend.  And I personally think it is commonly used as a godsend.            

But those are just my opinions and we can agree to disagree.

Oh, one more thing, it doesn't hurt one's driving distance either.  

[Lou_Duran]

One of this site's better writers, an attorney by trade, once argued that societies with extensive legal controls (translation: voluminous laws and codes covering with specificity nearly all behavior and conceivable contingencies) operated more efficiently and with less crime.  He could not offer any real world examples to support his point, but I suppose that if efficiency and the relative absence of crime were the primary objectives for a society, this may be possible.

Personally, I value liberty and the pursuit of happiness infinitely higher than security and equality of outcome (what some mistankingly refer to as fairness and justice), so no, don't muck up the PGA Tour with mandatory testing.  Besides, what is broken about the Tour that needs fixin'?

Oh, by the way, I am taking Metformin, Glipizide, Zocor, Zetia, Lisinopril, and various vitamins, fish oils, and other things for joints, arthritis, and muscle pains.  Hopefully these are helping me stay alive longer and allowing me to play golf.  Personally, I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy nor the Great Wizard who will make errorless decisions on my behalf.

Though I don't see it is a constitutional issue, I think that Doug Ralston is right on.  If the Tour chooses to test its members, I hope it realizes the Pandora's box that it is opening.  As others have noted, 'roids are but the tip of the iceberg.  There are all sorts of things which might be legislated.  Who amongst us possesses the infinite wisdom to decide what is appropriate and what provides an "unfair" advantage?  Some who star in the 19th hole may decide that the practice tee should be available only for fifteen minutes before and after the round.  Who is to say that banning ibuprophem is a ridiculous notion?

There are all sorts of well-intended things which become mandatory through law and police power.  I just learned that in Santa Monica, CA, by city code, any apartment property with 10 or more units must have a manager on site.  Any wonder why a small one bedroom 600 s.f. unit in that beautiful
city rents on average for over $2,000 per month?  It is infinitely easier to incrementally give up our liberty in small pieces than it is to ever get it back.  Be careful what you ask for.  You might get it.
         

[Dan_Callahan]

Had the PGA and USGA and R&A not been so hands-off, we wouldn't have the current problem with super-sized drivers, hot golf balls, and deep grooves. That debacle is almost beyond fixing.

Why make the same mistake twice?

[Paul Jones]

I think golf should do drug testing so it could be part of the Olympics.  I read in an article where Chess Players are being tested so they could compete in the Olympics.

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