H S Colt

1) Routing
2) Strategy

(40 years old, H/cap 10)

Dr. MacKenzie.

1)  He built some of the most thrilling and beautiful courses in the world, and

2)  Even an average golfer can get around them and enjoy them.

Age 45, handicap 9.

(And thanks to RJ for his support!)

Colt

An early and influencial inland architect.  His Heathland courses are very strong.  Pine Valley wouldn't be what it is today without the assistance he gave to the driving force and architect of record, George Crump.

49 5/6
4.6 (with a standard deviation that is hard to believe. right, Tom?)

Honorable mention to Flynn.  He designed my favorite course in the world, Shinnecock Hills and my second favorite, Merion East.  Nobody had a better batting average.  The percentage of his courses that held USGA events is amazing.  He may just be the best and most innovative router in history.  He was a fast study--almost savant-like in determining his routings.  His use of elasticity means most of his courses have stood the test of time.  He was a transition architect with his designs in the classic era and in a modern approach which shot tested and demanded aerial approaches on some holes and aerial/ground options on others.  His greens use complexities of slopes that make for a long learning curve and are therefore perfect for private clubs.  He built with a natural style that mimiced nature (he called himself the Nature Faker) and required less maintenance over time.  Flynn clearly understood perception and knew how to use it to fool and to encourage play.  He was one of the first great superintendents in the country and a leading expert on turf grasses and maintenance.  Underappreciated but great.

I can only go by with what I see in photos, but I'm going to cheat here and select 5, in no particular order.

1. Mackenzie- for many of the same reasons that Tom (both of them) cites above. And he wasn't afraid to position holes that created a so called imbalance to the standard of what a course should be such as at Cypress Point where it has back to back par 3's and par 5's. He put the right holes in the right spots. And the bunkers are a thing of beauty.

2. Tillinghast-Because the man never tried to repeat himself and therefore didn't allow himself to be pigeon holed. His courses varied in look and design so much.

3. Colt- Royal Portrush, Sunningdale, what he contributed to Pine Valley, and many more, need I say more? The first IMHO of the true greats. And man that furthered Mackenzie's education has to be admired.

4. Thomas- To be able to tackle that canyon in Pacific Palisades and create that course is genius. It's too bad most of his work is gone.

5. Flynn- "Speak softly and carry a big stick." The man just designed great courses. Shinnecock, Cherry Hills, Philadelphia CC, Rolling Green, HVCC, Kittansett and his contributions at Merion amongst many more.


I have only played one of Mackenzie's and none of the others so I have to go by what I see in photo's, so my descriptions of why are very shallow. But what I see of the these men make them my favorites.

35 years old
Haven't played enough to keep a handicap since my daughter has been born, but around a 10 handicap.

ODG: Ross. Great, intimate routings and fun for players of all stripes; his greens are endlessly subtle and fascinating- course after course offers great sets of greens. Master of the par threes without relying on proyotypes. Growing up in New England with its pleathora of Ross gems has a lot to do with my selection.

Modern: Dye. The first modern architect to challenge the modern top level player. Studied the great courses and put the concepts into the ground in such a way as to challenge the golfer physically, technically, mentally, and emotionally.

Throwback (modern minimalist): Coore and Crenshaw. Coore's design genious with Crenshaw's historical/traditionalist bent is a sure winner. (Sorry Tom Doak, but the only course of yours I've played is High Pointe. I will get to Bandon next year for the mid-am, though. Hope to (re) make your aquaintance there.)

49/+3

Tom Doak

1)  Tom selects properties that possess great natural beauty.  There are exceptions, such as the Rawls course in Texas, but most of his recent courses are built in unusually beautiful settings.  Tom's crew excels at transitioning the golf course into that setting.  There's lots of time inbetween shots to enjoy the scenery, and I enjoy taking note of the topography and wildlife.

2)  Tom builds wide, undulating, complex golf courses, which:
   a) result in few lost golf balls
   b) enhance the strategy of playing angles
   c) test the player's ability to hit off uneven lies
   d) don't depend on rough to defend par
   e) yield difficult and interesting putts
   f) are great fun to play, when I'm not watching the scenery go by.

48 years old, 2 handicap.  Good thread Pat.

John,

I think with my regard for Colt, it is the timing of his work more than anything else.  He was so good so early that his influence on architecture in general is the primary reason I selected him and I fell in love with Swinley Forest.

I don't have much experience with MacKenzie, so I cannot consider him at this point.  I have a feeling that I don't like his bunkering on hills above greens.  His concepts, along with those of Behr and Jones, are fascinating though and the original Augusta National was revolutionary.

How do they get the bunkers so close to the greens on MacK's sand belt courses?

Stanley Thompson (I haven't seen any of his work) really intrigues me from photos and conversations with Ian Andrew.

Flynn's work dominates my thoughts because I know him the best by a huge margin over anyone else.  I've been studying him for over 6 years now, many of it full time.  I am now up to page 930 of the Flynn book (adding pictures and drawings to the 675 pages of text) and suspect it will end up being about 1100 typewritten pages with all inserts.  I don't know what this will translate into for book pages.  I'm guessing it will be 2 volumes of about 400 pages each with about 250,000 words.  

It looks like we'll be privately publishing this since I doubt our publisher will want to touch it as is and I'd hate to condense it very much.  We'll see...maybe we'll have a limited edition unabridged version and a commercial one.  If our publisher would return our phone calls we might have a better idea  

Dr. Alister MacKenzie

1. For Cypress Point (heaven on earth) and Pasatiempo (my home club).
2. For inspiring and influencing Tom Doak who has given us some amazing courses so far and will no doubt continue to do so.

Age: 48
Handicap: 6 (but trending upward, thank goodness!)

Rob

Alister McKenzie

1. For all his work in Australia (which is all I have seen of his stuff) and the influence that work had on the people he worked with there and Australian golf architecture generally

2. The Spirit of St Andrews, the best book written by a golf architect

Age: 35
Hcp: 1

No doubt it's Alister MacKenzie for me.

Two reasons:

The natural appearance of his courses, where it appears the only earth moving was flattening tees, and excavating bunkers and using the spoil to build up green sites.

His influence on modern designers who emulate the Good Doctor's design style through judicious and well-planned routing and construction.

He was blessed with great sites and lack of permitting oversight, but he was a genius at creating holes of strategic interest that remain fun and playable for all levels of ability.  His rules for golf architecture remain viable today, particularly with regard to width, alternate lines and little or no rough!

Oh yes, age 64 and handicap 12 with a bullet!  

From what I've read, I think Alister MacKenzie would certainly rival anyone.  I've never played one of his courses, so I'd be kidding myself to choose him.

From what I've actually seen live and played, I'll take Doak.  My two reasons:
1) Pacific Dunes
2) Ballyneal

Either Mackenzie or Colt

Primarily for their routing and strategic designs....

Age: 37
HCP: 9

Braid or Hackett,

a)I'm sure they were very different characters in different times but I feel they have done similar things for each of their countries. i.e provided a lot of very decent to great golf courses at a reasonable cost.

b) Carne, Enniscrone and Brora.

33y.o.  16hcp