if you had to play golf by yourself for the rest of your life on the same course

« **Reply #25 on:** November 06, 2006, 02:09:51 PM »

AGC - apologies, but rest easy - hoops starts soon enough. NC just happened to be the ND cupcake of the week. There's another one this week, likely to score 20+ points.

« **Reply #26 on:** November 06, 2006, 02:37:47 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on November 06, 2006, 12:12:19 PM

Quote from: Andy Scanlon on November 06, 2006, 12:11:23 PM
TOC. No way I'd ever get bored playing there.

Weather? Playing off of mats all winter?

That's what's keeping me from this answer.... maybe I am taking this far too literally.

Huck:

Neither would bother me enough to change my answer.

« **Reply #27 on:** November 06, 2006, 02:50:49 PM »

The Shore Course at MPCC. Alone, sans caddie. Eminently walkable for someone on the back nine of life. With a couple of feet of sand underneath the grass, there would be no trouble in the rain. The ball runs ungodly distances from skulled shots that help a less than stellar game. The coastal scenery is superb, the surf has unending fascination and with just deer, foxes and hawks for companions, the tranquility is sublime.

I could play every day of the year.....but elect not to.

Bob

« **Reply #28 on:** November 06, 2006, 02:58:03 PM »

Bob, how I envy you.

« **Reply #29 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:03:54 PM »

« **Reply #30 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:40:10 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on November 06, 2006, 02:03:08 PM

Oregon State is a playing pretty good football right now, as proven by their dismantling of previously-#25 ranked Washington State.

Beyond that I don't make excuses nor give explanations, unlike some people.

What do you call the above.
You chided ND for giving up 26 points, while USC gave up 33, but, you make excuses and try to explain it away, and then claim that you don't do that.

Why is it that you claim that everyone who plays close to USC is playing good football ? And, what does that mean ? And, why is it that only USC's opponents are playing good football, and not ND's ?

As for the rest, heck that works by me. But it's as likely to happen as finding good January golf weather on Long Island, so dare to dream, I guess....

The point re golf course choice: one CAN play year-round at Cypress. Some days aren't great, but there's never a time where the course is closed except perhaps for small particularly rainy times. One has a huge chunk of the year at NGLA where one cannot play no matter what. If you are willing to give up that large portion of your year, then more power to you. I find it illogical - for a true lover of the game anyway.

And that's cool... I always had you pegged as a part-timer.

Golf is but one facet of my life.
I have many interests, and could acquire many more.

If I never play another round, my life will go on, and I'll enjoy myself and all of the things I do.

But, if I had one course to play for the rest of my life it would be NGLA. The diversity of play, presented by the architecture is so brilliant, so accomodating of every level of player, that, as I aged, and my game deteriorated, I could have as much fun playing NGLA at 70, 80 and 90 as I've had in the past. I just won't have as many pars and birdies.

« **Reply #31 on:** November 06, 2006, 03:47:52 PM »

Stating that a team is good is neither making an excuse nor giving an explanation; those terms refer to listing specific turnovers and special teams goofs and the like - as someone does every time ND plays.

As for the golf, giving up half the year remains curious to me. I'd still like the option to play year round. Like the wise man Bob Huntley, I'd likely choose not to play every so often, as yes there is more to life than golf. I'd just like to have the option... and it continues to surprise me you're so willing to give this up.

BTW, if you give me a 2nd and 3rd course, I'd include NGLA. The point here isn't to denigrate that wonderful golf course - you summed it up well. The point here is to keep one's options open.

TH

« **Reply #32 on:** November 06, 2006, 04:01:46 PM »

Is there anyone here other than me who if forced to play alone forever at the same place would at some point would take up another hobby?? I'd be really excited about Cypress Point (or wherever else you prefer) for about 30 rounds, but after that I'd need someone to share it with.

« **Reply #33 on:** November 06, 2006, 04:02:47 PM »

Quote from: Andy Troeger on November 06, 2006, 04:01:46 PM

Is there anyone here other than me who if forced to play alone forever at the same place would at some point would take up another hobby?? I'd be really excited about Cypress Point (or wherever else you prefer) for about 30 rounds, but after that I'd need someone to share it with.

Andy - you are not alone - see my first post (reply #4). I would call this a strange form of hell.

TH

« **Reply #34 on:** November 06, 2006, 04:17:48 PM »

I probably should have posed the question differently...but it was just an attempt to see if people would prefer 1 dream course over another if thy had to play it by themself..

maybe we shoudl call it the "Superman Fortress of Solitude" course......

« **Reply #35 on:** November 06, 2006, 04:24:34 PM »

Quote from: Patrick_Mucci on November 06, 2006, 01:59:46 PM

On a related matter, VEGAS got it right again.

The Polls and BCS ranked WV ahead of Louisville, yet, Vegas had Louisville favored to win, and they won big.

The Polls and BCS ranked Tennessee over LSU, yet, Vegas had LSU favored to win, and they did.

This has happened often.

The Polls and the BCS are inherently flawed with built in biases, vis a vis, the media and coaches.

Let those who do this for a living, the professionals, absent any bias, rank and select the teams for bowl pairings.

They may not be perfect, but, they're far better than the Polls and the BCS.

"The linemaker will then adjust the team power ratings higher or lower based on current form and public perception . . . Even though linemakers deny it, the line is fiendishly designed to take advantage of the public as the public reacts to current performances . . . The linemaker is concerned about public perception because even though the line is designed to even the monetary action on wagers bet in the real world, that is not the case, as sports books always get stuck sitting on one side or the other . . . It is clear the linemaker wants to predict public perception in the world of NFL handicapping. When people wager on teams they are either betting for or against teams. After a couple of weeks the linemaker knows which teams the public favors and the power ratings will be adjusted accordingly."

winnersedgeonline.com

« **Reply #36 on:** November 06, 2006, 04:25:29 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on November 06, 2006, 04:02:47 PM

Quote from: Andy Troeger on November 06, 2006, 04:01:46 PM
Is there anyone here other than me who if forced to play alone forever at the same place would at some point would take up another hobby?? I'd be really excited about Cypress Point (or wherever else you prefer) for about 30 rounds, but after that I'd need someone to share it with.

Andy - you are not alone - see my first post (reply #4). I would call this a strange form of hell.

TH

This guy was travelling across the Pacific when the plane had to ditch. Anyway, to cut a long story short, he ends up on a tropical paradise island with Paris Hilton (insert alternate desirable female if you prefer). They are the only two people on the island.

Well, nature takes its course, and these two are very close, and very happy. After a couple of months, the guy says to Paris

"What say we do dress-ups today? Paris, can you wear this dark-wig, and beard"

"OK" says Paris, and puts on the gear.

The guy sidles up to Paris and says "Hey mate, you'll never guess who I am dating!"

James B

« **Reply #37 on:** November 06, 2006, 04:28:12 PM »

James - classic - and perfectly summing up the dilemma here.

« **Reply #38 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:04:21 PM »

Quote from: Paul T on November 06, 2006, 04:17:48 PM

I probably should have posed the question differently...but it was just an attempt to see if people would prefer 1 dream course over another if thy had to play it by themself..

maybe we shoudl call it the "Superman Fortress of Solitude" course......

Paul...your wording is most likely just fine. I just had to be the turkey (early Thanksgiving reference!) who had to take your question as literally as possible! I haven't really played anywhere that would do it for me under these lines, but I'm sure there are places that would

James...

« **Reply #39 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:08:57 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on November 06, 2006, 02:03:08 PM

Oregon State is a playing pretty good football right now, as proven by their dismantling of previously-#25 ranked Washington State.

If they're playing such good football right now, how do you explain that they're a 2 point underdog to UCLA this weekend ?

As I said earlier, college football isn't your forte.

« **Reply #40 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:09:49 PM »

Shadow Creek because that means I am in Vegas

.

« **Reply #41 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:15:28 PM »

In order, mindful that golf in my dotage is likely to be a trifle different:

NGLA
Prestwick
Lahinch
Cruden Bay

Age on these courses is irrelevant.

Or maybe just play the back nine at Pacific Grove when I get too old to walk 18.

« **Reply #42 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:16:55 PM »

Regarding Oregon State, the last two weeks they've defeated #3 USC and #25 Washington State. Those are two pretty good wins. The Vegas line this week is what it is... geared toward encouraging betting - please read Michael Moore's post for your continued education. And as for their opponent UCLA, oh your Irish REALLY handled them at home... they're just awful.... (insert laugh in your direction).

But more importantly, perhaps we can also refer to the Sagarin ratings, which you yourself have previously trumped as the arbiter of what's what in college football:

Oregon State is currently #20, only three spots behind a certain alma mater of yours....

You might also be interested in the strength of schedule ratings. One more week added, one more week that ND continues to look worse:

USC #6 - SOS #5 (got sucked down by Stanford)
ND #17 - SOS #26

And this will just get worse and worse for you....

I've said it before - stick with me and you'll learn something about how college football works in this millenium. Long in the tooth guys like you do get so stuck in the leather helmet era.

TH

« **Reply #43 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:37:10 PM »

Quote from: Michael Moore on November 06, 2006, 04:24:34 PM

"The linemaker will then adjust the team power ratings higher or lower based on current form and public perception . . .

It's got nothing to do with the public.
It's got to do with gamblers.

Even though linemakers deny it, the line is fiendishly designed to take advantage of the public as the public reacts to current performances . . .

That's also not true. Maybe that's why they deny it.

The public feels that the lower ranked team will beat the higher ranked team, that a team ranked # 3 will beat a team ranked # 5, that a team ranked # 11 will beat a team ranked # 17.

Vegas has a complicated system for determining the spread and it doesn't start with public perception.

The linemaker is concerned about public perception because even though the line is designed to even the monetary action on wagers bet in the real world, that is not the case, as sports books always get stuck sitting on one side or the other . . .

Ahh, but, the more inaccurate they are, the more they get stuck on the losing side, which is not a good business practice.

They have to be very accurate in the setting of lines, if not, they perish.

It is clear the linemaker wants to predict public perception in the world of NFL handicapping.

Not so, in New York, and probably in most cities around the country, the public perception was that the Jets were much better than Cleveland, yet, Cleveland was favored by a good number. Jet fans, and the New York public thought this was a lock. Vegas proved they knew what they were talking about.

Vegas would like the money balanced, but, if it's unbalanced in their favor, that's good for them. The more losers the better.

If Vegas makes a mistake, it's costly for them.
If the gamblers make a mistake, it's profitable for them.
Ideally, a balance is best, but, with moving spreads, that's harder to accomplish.

When people wager on teams they are either betting for or against teams. After a couple of weeks the linemaker knows which teams the public favors and the power ratings will be adjusted accordingly."

Vegas recalculates the odds every week, based on their factors, info and systems. The days of better odds in one city versus the other are disappearing as communications have improved.

It wasn't uncommon to have one team favored in its home town and the opponent favored in their home town, with gamblers taking advantage of the disparity.
That's not very common these days.

While spreads move as money flows in, the factors determining the opening spread are at the core of determining the spread, not public opinion.

Vegas determines the score of each and every game.

And, if you want, you can bet on the coin toss, who will score first, scores by quarter, halfs, etc., etc..

The core of this cold hard business, is precise calculations, not public opinion.

winnersedgeonline.com

If winnersedgeonline.com was so good, why would they need to do anything other than bet their own money ?

They don't send jets and limos to host you in a suite of opulent rooms and wine and dine you because the core of their business is built on responding to public opinion.

« **Reply #44 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:38:02 PM »

Quote from: Jim Franklin on November 06, 2006, 05:09:49 PM

Shadow Creek because that means I am in Vegas .

But, Jim, for how long ?

« **Reply #45 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:56:29 PM »

Quote from: James Bennett on November 06, 2006, 04:25:29 PM

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on November 06, 2006, 04:02:47 PM
Quote from: Andy Troeger on November 06, 2006, 04:01:46 PM
Is there anyone here other than me who if forced to play alone forever at the same place would at some point would take up another hobby?? I'd be really excited about Cypress Point (or wherever else you prefer) for about 30 rounds, but after that I'd need someone to share it with.

Andy - you are not alone - see my first post (reply #4). I would call this a strange form of hell.

TH

This guy was travelling across the Pacific when the plane had to ditch. Anyway, to cut a long story short, he ends up on a tropical paradise island with Paris Hilton (insert alternate desirable female if you prefer). They are the only two people on the island.

Well, nature takes its course, and these two are very close, and very happy. After a couple of months, the guy says to Paris

"What say we do dress-ups today? Paris, can you wear this dark-wig, and beard"

"OK" says Paris, and puts on the gear.

The guy sidles up to Paris and says "Hey mate, you'll never guess who I am dating!"

James B

Father O'Reilly left the local parish in Ireland to visit North Berwick for the annual Catholic conference in June. Father O'Reilly was a keen golfer, but was disappointed that his only day in North Berwick was Sunday. What to do?

Well, Father O'Reilly got up early as the sun rose, and dashed out onto the West links wearing some disguising attire. He played as a single (no-one else was up at that time), and perhaps because it was the sabbath (he never played on the sabbath!) his golf was poor.

He came to the 14th, still early in the morning and still no-one around. Forgettable golf, at best. He proceeded to play another weak foozle which did not meet the requirements of 'Perfection' and so he dragged his feet to #15 - Redan.

At this moment, St Peter and God looked down from above onto the links of North Berwick West, and sighted Father O'Reilly. St Peter said

"look at Father O'Reilly down there, playing golf on the sabbath and thinking no-one can see him. We should do something about this, God."

And God did do something. As Father O'Reilly stepped onto the 15th tee, the sun came out of the clouds, the sea glistened, and the birds arrived on the nearby islands. Father O'Reilly struck a 3-wood into a slight breeze, its drawn flight gently arching through the still-orange morning sky, pitched into the fronting slope of the Redan and turned left towards the pin. For what seemed an eternity, the ball gradually fed to the back left pin, stopped briefly on the edge before falling into the hole for a one. Father O'Reilly had never played a shot like this, nor had he seen such a beautiful spot. 20 seconds of pure, unadulterated ecstasy!

St Peter said to God "what did you do that for - he has had the best moment in his golfing life. I thought you were going to fix him?"

God replied "I DID, WHO CAN HE TELL ABOUT THIS MOMENT IN HIS LIFE? NO-ONE!"

My apologies to any catholics that I may have inadvertently offended.

James B

« **Reply #46 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:57:05 PM »

Patrick -

Until I am pushing up daisies

. I love Vegas and I love sports so I can golf during the day and watch/wager on any game I want at night.

Now I would not do this in my current state since I have three small children and a lovely wife, but if I was single...I would love to be in Vegas every day.

« **Reply #47 on:** November 06, 2006, 05:57:38 PM »

Royal County Down GC.

I got to play there in the '99 Amateur Champ. and since part of the criteria is that you are playing alone, I have to say that there is no lonlier feeling than standing on the back tee with a left to right wind in your face on hole #9--so I figure I've got that solitary feeling kind of down.

The weather ranged from 70 and sunny to 45, windy and rainy and I still had a blast.

Lastly, even if I had to play alone, I know that once I came inside to the bar, there would be few better places to have a Guinness, talk golf and look out over the golf course (10th hole).

The only caveat is that I heard they re-designed the 16th hole--the short driveable par 4 that was one of the few "breathers" on the back. I hope they didn't mess with the hole too much in an attempt to "fix" what some saw as a "weak" hole.

« **Reply #48 on:** November 06, 2006, 06:18:42 PM »

Quote from: Tom Huckaby on November 06, 2006, 05:16:55 PM

Regarding Oregon State, the last two weeks they've defeated #3 USC and #25 Washington State. Those are two pretty good wins.

If they're such good wins, then why is OSU a 2 point underdog against a weak UCLA team ?

The Vegas line this week is what it is... geared toward encouraging betting -

As I said, college football isn't your forte.

The line isn't geared toward encouraging betting.
Gamblers don't need encouragement, they merely need an opportunity or medium.

please read Michael Moore's post for your continued education.

I've forgotten more than Michael Moore knows about gambling and Vegas.

And as for their opponent UCLA, oh your Irish REALLY handled them at home... they're just awful.... (insert laugh in your direction).

If they're so awful, and they're favored by 2 points over OSU, what does that make OSU ?

But more importantly, perhaps we can also refer to the Sagarin ratings, which you yourself have previously trumped as the arbiter of what's what in college football:

Sagarin has it all wrong also.

Penn State and other schools had far more difficult schedules than USC. You tried to argue that USC's schedule was # 1. PSU has played the # 1 an undefeated team, the # 2 an undeafeated team, the # 9 a one loss team and # 15 a one loss team. USC's highest ranked opponent is a # 11 team.

My point on the flaws in the polls and BCS is that better ranked teams are underdogs to worse ranked teams, or unranked teams, and that's because of the built in biases.
Therefore, let Vegas determine rankings and pairings as they have no inherent bias in their formula or system.

Oregon State is currently #20, only three spots behind a certain alma mater of yours....

Then explain to me how they can be a 2 point underdog to an unranked team ?

You might also be interested in the strength of schedule ratings. One more week added, one more week that ND continues to look worse:

USC #6 - SOS #5 (got sucked down by Stanford)
Didn't ND get sucked down by Stanford ?
ND #17 - SOS #26

What you don't get about the SOS is that USC hasn't played anyone ranked in the top 10. It's easy to play against teams ranked in the 20's and higher.

And, Sagarin shows PSU at # 6 in SOS and USC as # 5.

PSU played # 1, # 2, # 9 and # 15.
Who has USC played ? # 16 Arkansas ?

And this will just get worse and worse for you....

Time will tell

I've said it before - stick with me and you'll learn something about how college football works in this millenium. Long in the tooth guys like you do get so stuck in the leather helmet era.

I"m not going to hold your lack of experience against you.
You just don't get it.
It doesn't matter if you're young or old, if you don't get it, you just don't get it, and, despite my many attempts no amount of tutoring can help you.

« **Reply #49 on:** November 06, 2006, 06:23:17 PM »

EUREKA!

Your inconsistency betrays you, Patrick. When it suits your argument, you advocate Sagarin - which you did after week 3 when Sagarin had ND's schedule ranked #1. Now that it doesn't suit you, "Sagarin has it all wrong also."

I'd call you a hypocrite, but we're friends.

So OK, my bad for taking another thread and turning it into a college football battle... But perhaps if you do stick with me, you'll learn some integrity. Sad that an ancient mariner like you seems to have so little.

TH

ps - you do know Sagarin only counts games already played, right? Please tell me I don't have to educate you AGAIN.... In the next two weeks USC plays Oregon and Cal, while ND plays cupcake A and cupcake B, also know as service academies that suck at football. SOS for USC will be strengthened, ND's will be weakened. I will be happy to give you weekly reminders, though. But oh, I forgot... now that it hurts your feeble arguments, Sagarin is all wrong. OK..... (insert more laughter going your way) One more thing also... you put so much stock in Vegas... will you agree right now that the LINE on USCvND determines which team is stronger? Result of the game doesn't matter.... it's all about the line.... Make your statement, Vegas-boy.

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