[BigEdSC]

I don't necessarily agree or disagree with the subject line.  But I would much rather have a choice of walking or riding.  I favor carrying my bag, but when the weather here turns to 95 degrees and 95% humidity, riding sounds pretty good.  Also, with the threat of rain, it's nice to be able to stuff your rain gear on the cart, rather than drag the extra weight.  But walking and riding do have their places.  But at least give me a choice.

[Jason Mandel]

As a former caddy, I obviously like to walk, and carry my bag most of the time.  However, since I still play most of my golf at my parents country club, the rules there, and I can't blame them, that if there is a caddy available, you must take the caddy before you carry your own bag.

While some people may have an issue with this rule, I can tell you  it is the only way to build a caddy program, especially in a walking town like Philadelphia.

If our caddies come to our club and don't get out, they will go to one of the other 10 clubs that are within 20 minutes.

At the club I used to caddy at while I was at school, Chevy Chase, the epitomy of blue blood, walking with a caddy was mandatory all the time.  EXCEPT, and this was always a little strange to me, on Sunday morning.  For some reason, members were permitted the option of carrying their own bag on Sunday morning, no matter how many caddies were waiting to get out.  To be fair, most of the members still took the caddy, but there were some that did not.

At my club in Philadelphia, the pro's do everything they can to promote walking and getting the caddies out, even if it means less revenue for the pro shop.  I am agree that there is a time for riding, even this 23 year old like to ride every once in a while, for one it is cheaper, two after a long friday night a cart can help you get through that sat am round!  

for the older folks, such as my dad, who likes to walk once in a while, carts definitly make it easier to play and enjoy the game.

If anyone saw CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM this past week, they will surely appreciate this discussion!

Jason Mandel

[Kevin_Reilly]

Disclaimer: I take carts on occasion.  Like the second round of the day, or if my knee acts up, or at courses like Poopy Ridge.  Or if my energy is sapped.  

With that said, the merits of Miller's statement can be questioned, even by a sinner like me.

I like the way you can load an extra sweater, some snacks, your camera and whatever else and bring it along with no effort.

There is very little effort expended in doing these with a carry bag.

It's almost like a picnic.

That is a stretch.

You're closer to ther person you're playing with.

You are closer to the person you are riding with, is a more accurate statement.

You do get exercise, because there's more walking than you think.

Technically I am exercising right now by typing this, but let's get real.  The exercise you get by taking a cart is limited, and really is only the case if it is cart paths only.

Carts are fun to drive--if they had them at a theme park, they would charge people to drive them.

Uh, Johnny, I don't think Disney will be hiring you for consultations on theme park revenue generation.  Carts are fun for first-timers, kids who don't have drivers licenses, and maybe for downhill adventures where they don't have speed restrictors installed.  The rest of the time, they are utilitarian, but not fun.

[Kevin_Reilly]

If anyone saw CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM this past week, they will surely appreciate this discussion!

I have a note from my doctor!

[THuckaby2]

Kevin:

I can't do all those quotes... but I'll take you one for one on this.  Interesting that I pretty much disagree 100% with your take..

1. extra stuff:  oh please - try fitting all that in a bag and then carry it, tell me it's not a chore.  In the rain a cart helps big time.  If you need other layers in the cold, ditto, big time help with the cart.  Camera?  Hell yes, my digital one is pretty big and won't fit in my small carry bag - if I'm taking pics it helps to have the cart.  If you want to bring along some beer or take some food along, a cart helps big time.  That's it.  No way to deny this...

2. Picnic - stretch yes, but darn on those rounds where beer is the first thought and golf the second (and god help me I do play a lot of those), damn right it helps to take a cart...

3. You are closer to the person you're riding with, and can have a discussion without huffing and puffing, trying to keep up or slow down, or actively trying to stay together - the togetherness is forced!  So this is his weakest point, and yes it only works for two, but it is valid...

4. Ever played carts on path?  That is far more exercise than walking.  Not that it's a good thing... and yes, one does generally get more excercise walking... but hell, if one is in golf with exercise as primary goal, one is kind of off his rocker to begin with.

5. I find carts very fun to drive, always.  And you should see the kids drive them... But maybe I am a kid.  Yep, I do find them fun.  Of course I've also crashed two in my day...

 

[Kevin_Reilly]

OK Tom, right back at you!  

1. extra stuff:  oh please - try fitting all that in a bag and then carry it, tell me it's not a chore.  

Chore is too strong of a word...I carry that junk all the time and I don't notice it.

In the rain a cart helps big time.

Assuming you have a cover for your bag in the back, don't need an umbrella, and have a towel to wipe off the seat every time you sit down.

 If you need other layers in the cold, ditto, big time help with the cart.

Are you talking about blankets?  I wear my layers, so I'm not sure how the cart helps.

Camera?  Hell yes, my digital one is pretty big and won't fit in my small carry bag - if I'm taking pics it helps to have the cart.

Your choice to carry a big digital camera...most now are smaller than a sleeve of balls.

If you want to bring along some beer or take some food along, a cart helps big time.

Yes, there is no way to deny that in the examples you give, like Rodney Dangerfield's provisions in Caddyshack, a cart is helpful.

2. Picnic - stretch yes, but darn on those rounds where beer is the first thought and golf the second (and god help me I do play a lot of those), damn right it helps to take a cart...

 I'll agree with you, it is a stretch.

3. You are closer to the person you're riding with, and can have a discussion without huffing and puffing, trying to keep up or slow down, or actively trying to stay together - the togetherness is forced!  So this is his weakest point, and yes it only works for two, but it is valid...

I guess you agree with me that it only applies to being closer to 33% of the guys you are playing with.

4. Ever played carts on path?  That is far more exercise than walking.  Not that it's a good thing... and yes, one does generally get more excercise walking...

Did you just contradict yourself in the second and third sentences?  

5. I find carts very fun to drive, always.  And you should see the kids drive them... But maybe I am a kid.  Yep, I do find them fun.  Of course I've also crashed two in my day...

 I'll let you drive my car and you'll experience fun.  As long as you don't crash it in a bunker.  

[Scott_Burroughs]

Cartpaths only is NOT more exercise than walking, especially when you carry your bag.  Walking a course is 5 miles minimum.  Going back and forth 5-75 yards a few times per hole doesn't add up to 8800 yards at the end.

[THuckaby2]

Kevin:

I stand firm by my statements.  Your rebuttals are all wrong.  But I'm sure you find mine wrong also!  One thing's for sure, if you carry all that crap all the time, we gotta get you a lighter bag.  You ain't getting any younger.    Watch what shivas and Hendren and I and a few others carry at TKPIII.  Tell me I can get a jacket in that, btw... not to mention anything else.  But that's enough for now... Just don't ask me for a beer the next time we play a drinking round - I'm gonna make you carry your own!  BTW, what happens when you take off your layers?  In the bag, eh?  Yep, that's no chore, not at all...

Scott:

It depends on the course.  In the worst-case scenario, which happens far too often, carts on path does add up to more walking.  In any case the main point is that if one is relying on golf for exercise, it kinda renders all other points moot.

TH

[Kevin_Reilly]

Just don't ask me for a beer the next time we play a drinking round - I'm gonna make you carry your own!  

[THuckaby2]

Shivas:

Next time we play in the rain, you walk and I'll ride.  We'll compare fatigue and dryness factor at the end.  Everything gets drenched only if you are a...dare I say it... MORON.  It's not that tough to keep things dry - hell of a lot easier to do with a roof over one's head, that's for sure.  Or don't they have wind where you live?

 

As for the carts on path adding up to more walking, I shall take you to some instances of such next time you're out here, if you so desire.  Yes, it does depend on the course.  But the instances exist, oh yes they do.  And in any case that remains the weakest of Miller's points, as I've said several times.

It also only applies to poorer players.  But damn right  - ou guys so quickly dismiss the THERE AND BACK nature of the walking that goes on in this situation... no, they don't hit it 300 yards off line...But 150 from the nearest path is VERY believable.  And better take the right clubs, or they're gonna do it a few more times before they get to the green....

Where the fuck is Tuco?

 

TH

[THuckaby2]

Kevin - FAN-FREAKIN'-TASTIC!

My life is now complete.  OK, you win my friend.  I'll carry both bags and you carry that.  Just don't be offended if I stay RIGHT NEXT to you the whole round!

 

[Mike Benham]

 I'll let you drive my car and you'll experience fun.  As long as you don't crash it in a bunker.  

Tom - take him up on his offer, it will be worth it !

And what is this talk about layers and an extra jacket?  During a round of golf you either 1.) start with a jacket or sweater on and leave it on  2.)  start with a jacket or sweater on and take it off  3.)  start without a jacket or sweater and then put one on  4.)  start without a jacket or sweater and play the entire round ...

It is not like you need to put on or take off 2 sweaters and a jacket after the start of the round.

Mike

[THuckaby2]

Mike:  good point, I forgot to address that.  Yes Kevin, if you want ye too shall experience fun... let's just say we'll make it Tilden Park.  I don't believe in brakes.

 

Re layers, Mr,. Benham ye shall see with brutal clarity how this works in a few months over in the Auld Sod.  For wussy Californians like us, a lot of layers are required in that ever-changing climate, and when it warms up it really pays to have a place to put them.  Not that one does over there, thank god, but damn there were times I felt like I was lugging a suitcase last summer.  Thank god for trolleys.  But those would start to look bag-lady-esque with all the sweaters, jackets, windshirts tied to them....

And in any case, in any of the scenarios you suggest, if one takes a layer off, it remains just a hell of a lot easier and lighter to throw it in a cart rather than stuff it in one's bag.  The degree of this depends on what one is used to.. as I say when I carry I am used to a tiny little bag that carries the 14 clubs and that's it.  Any additions to that seem murderous to me... I absolutely despise carrying more than clubs, a few balls, a few tees.  Anything more than that and the temptation to ride is very strong.

TH

[Rick Shefchik]

At the risk of sounding like a real kill-joy, if beer is the best reason for taking a cart, let's get rid of carts.

I love a post-round beer, but one of the things I hate most about the way the game is played these days (sorry I left this out of my "Do You Love Golf Today" post) is the mindset of the Common American Golfer: "No beer, no golf."

I know almost everyone on this site enjoys their golf just as well without beer as with it, but that's not the case with most players I encounter. They are there to kill time between refueling stops by the bev cart.

It has made for a diminished game, in my estimation. Rich, or anyone -- do they slug down the suds on the course in Scotland and Ireland the way they do here?

[THuckaby2]

Rick:

You are absolutely right and it's making me ashamed of my glorification of this practice.  Please understand that it is damn fun, but I do keep it in it's time and place.

And no, from my experience over there, the drinks are kept for after the round.  Of course there rounds go so much faster, they don't NEED it for the most part... Put a Scotsman in my 5.5 hour group at my local course and I betcha he'd take a beer or three with him after 9, as we tend to do...

But it can surely be overdone, and is so all the time.  Time and place for everthing.. right on.

TH

[Dan Kelly]

At the risk of sounding like a real kill-joy, if beer is the best reason for taking a cart, let's get rid of carts.

I'll go you one better, Rick, at the risk of sounding like a real kill-joy (which, of course, I am -- if this is someone's view of "joy"):

Let's get rid of beer on the course. Period.

Imagine the tee times opened up by those for whom it ain't golf if there ain't beer.

Imagine the improved pace-of-play, as the remaining thirsties race toward Home.

P.S. Prohibition's leading sponsor was a Congressman from Minnesota. Just a coincidence?
 

[THuckaby2]

Wow Dan, you are a kill-joy.  But then you also find 300 yard par threes to be "fun."  

Ban beer from the course?  Well, I'd live.  The game is more important than the beer, that's for sure.  I just would wonder why our game became so damn serious all of a sudden, that's all.

And I doubt it would put a dent on the crowds I face.  You guys must have some crazy partiers out there in Minnesota!

TH

[gookin]

I guess we can now be certain that Miller's best golf is behind him.  Also, cart's can be positioned to prevent the group behind him from seeing him miss three footers.

[Eric Pevoto]

Hey, I finally posted something that gets more than 10 views and falls off the page!  I guess I don't really have a point with all of this other than I just think Johnny Miller sounds like a WEENIE.

Sure golf cars have their place.  If Johnny suffers from chronic pain, more power to him to do whatever to keep on playing.  Same for anyone else who wouldn't play otherwise.

Tour players walk so much as a part of the job that it's no shock that they typically cart it when they practice or play for goofs.  Foot problems are common.

The "picnic" comment threw me off.  To each...I guess.

I think Curb Your Enthusiasm is one, if not the funniest show on TV.  I loved the blind date episode.

 

[gookin]

Here is the real reason. Carts can be parked so the group behind  won't be able to see him miss those three footers.

[frank_D]

in parsing the statement - consider the following

1) it doesn't have to be cart OR walk

2) it can be cart AND walk

johnny miller is using the cart in a similar way i do - to schlep my and my partners golf clubs and sundry other stuff which during big football games has included a TV (sound muted / picture only)

HOWEVER - i always - repeat always - WALK and

a) my golf partner rides the cart alone OR

b) my golf partner and i BOTH WALK and hire a "caddie" to drive our cart

it is very much a convienience and easier to jump out of my car and venture onto the property and stroll around from the clubhouse to the tee and around the course UNENCUMBERED -clubs and equipment saddled up on the cart and ready to go - i've even taken to sending the "caddie" and cart for additional refreshments cigars condiments lunch etc during a round - keeping in touch via walkie-talkie - which started with communication with my kids who drove the carts and periodically needed instantaneous on the course direction and supervision

all this is in response partially to the two (riders v walker) polarized camps which divided really only on ECONOMIC reasons - club owners overwhelmingly favoring golf without carts indicated they could NOT AFFORD to do so - especially if their competition DID continue to offer carts - this alone is a significant reason to allow carts - in my opinion

at the same time i found it difficult to stand morally superior as a WALKER over CARTBALLERS for a variety of reasons - not the least of which is many cartballers i know are good friends and good people who would simply rather ride

i haven't however lost my disgust at cart PATHS being a BLIGHT on the landscape and too many times come into play on relatively reasonable shots

[tonyt]

Personal Preferences:

1) walk with caddie
2) walk with bag loaded onto cart
3) push a trolley (don't pull those things guys, it takes twice the effort)
4) carry
5) ride a cart

I do however fully support the cart riders who are playing a second round, are injured or aged, or playing in very hot weather. Cart golf is better than no golf.

All of the above concessions are subject to there being no continuous cart path around the course. If we can do it here in Australia with clay or any other surface, and it not look like a slush pit, so can the mighty US of A.

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