[ed_getka]

Forrest,
   The bumps sound like a good idea as you are using them. I look forward to seeing some of your courses to see how they look and effect play.

Jeff,
   Why would you want to do something for the better player to essentially make the game easier. Skyline/no backdrop type greens are much harder to approach as it is harder to commit to the shot, because of the depth of field uncertainties (at least for this mid handicapper). The uncertainty of these types of greens makes the game more interesting to me.
Who "drilled" it into you to provide a backdrop?

[Doug Wright]

Jim Engh does squiggly narrow greenside bunkers as a signature feature.

Not a "signature feature" for Engh, but a singular aspect of his work is that he does a lot of courses on very difficult sites such as The Sanctuary, Fossil Trace and Black Rock.

Happy Holidays,

[Jeff_Brauer]

Ed,

Having co-designed several courses with different tour pros, I can tell you that they hate lack of definition and having problems committing to a shot, which ruins more shots for them than anything.  So, if they were paying my fee, I tended to design to their desires.....

It begs the point of who do you design for, naturally.  However, I don't really know a lot of golfers who really like to be confused on their shots.  They like to know the challenge, and overcome it with skill, if they have it.

My mentors Killian and Nugent also preferred greens with a nice backdrop, specifically a ridge of rough above the green so the golfer can determine exactly where the back of the green is.  On occaision, I would try to have them do a skyline green, especially if there was nice tree backdrop, but they always changed their mind in the field.

So, I guess the tour pros and architects I've worked with drill that into my head, and I consider all of them my mentors, to one degree or another!

[Larry_Rodgers]

Who's signature is #17 being a par 3 over water?

[Tommy_Naccarato]

Doug, Jim Engh also does a sort of rash-like series of pot bunkers too doesn't he?

Desmond Muirhead while being somewhat noticiable in anything he did, in his designs both sympbloic and non-symbolic, created these massive wrap-a-round tees that usually were situated on par 3 holes on or around a lake. I'm not a water hazard kind of guy, but I found those to be a good thing because the hole could change from a short  pitch to a 240 yard behemoth from day to day. There have been times I have been on courses that he didn't originally design, and while walking seen one of these tees, and then as soon as I got home, call him asking him if he did work at the given course, and he would respond excitedly to me, "yes how did you know that!"

[George Pazin]

However, I don't really know a lot of golfers who really like to be confused on their shots.  They like to know the challenge, and overcome it with skill, if they have it.

You might not know a lot of us personally, but there's certainly a lot of us on this board that like confusion! I'm boycotting your courses till you put in a skyline green somewhere...

Ed -

I think Tommy's taking up Tom D's throwing down of the gauntlet.

[texsport]

The Quarry must represent a new or experimental phase in design philosophy for Jeff Brauer. If I recall correctly, on hole #'s 8, 16 and 18 the greens are defined by mounds right, left or fronting but you cannot seen the backs of these greens clearly from the fairways. They're not hill top- sky line greens, but fall away somewhat to the rear.

 Number 8 green ,in particular, requires some thought and the experience
of prior play since the hole is long and plays slightly up hill, while the green is quite deep and falls away to a sunken chipping area over the back. There are hills right and left but no distinct backdrop-the raised 11th green is about 200 yards beyond.

In addition, some greens are partially hidden from even the most accurately positioned tee shots. (Numbers 9 and 14 come to mind.)

The course also has many holes with "ground game" options .

Texsport

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