Matt Ward,
With all due respect, you are painting with a really, really broad brush, and you are dead wrong.  MB golf cannot accurately summarized that way you have done it; the Strand covers about 70 miles in two states, and includes over 100 golf courses.  Some are great golf (names already mentioned in earlier posts) and would be great anywhere.  Some are good, some are average, and so on.

Yes, the courses do depend on sometimes cheezy marketing, and yes, the entire area markets to the masses.  That doesn't really speak to the quality of the architecture, does it?  As an example, I played a new course there this past July named Shaftesbury Glen.  Cheezy name, goofy faux-castle clubhouse, etc., and a very, very good golf course.  Very traditional (as that word is used on this website), a minimalist design, and just beautiful.

Caledonia is a great example of the hits that MB takes because, IMHO, of the clientele that frequents MB.  Caledonia is a rather highly-thought of golf course, but if it was anywhere else, including New Jersey, I truly believe it would be considered great.  It is that good of a golf course.

I'd go so far as to say that the top 25 golf courses at MB will stack up against any 25 courses in a similar size area that are open to the public anywhere on the planet.  If you factor in the affordability of those 25 (which for a few of us is a legitimate concern!) I doubt you could beat the place for golf of "distinction."

A.G. / R Junah:

Gentlemen -- puhleeeeeeeeeeeze wake up and smell the coffee. I played Myrtle Beach over the course of several years as a student at the Univ of S Carolina and I had the "pleasure" playing plenty of the "fast food" layouts that dot the landscape. I also mentioned there are s-o-m-e courses of distinction but when r-e-a-l golfers travel I would hope they would want to play courses that have some solid architectural muscle not the lite kind that dominates the scene there.

I'll say this again -- yes, there are a F-E-W layouts worthy of playing but it's a vast stretch to thing, imply or say that Myrtle Beach (Grand Strand) is on the short list of "must play" architectural treasures. Guys, wake up -- it's buffet style golf. You know the deal -- have someone pay "X" and then give them u-n-l-i-m-i-t-e-d golf. For the masses who don't value quality but enjoy and savor quantity that's great stuff!

When you throw in the "all you can eat" and strip joints it's a panacea for most men.

R Junah: You asked me about dropping the 70 courses that are there and what would be my comments / reaction then. First, I truly believe that if Myrtle Beach (Grand Strand) did consolidate somewhere around 20-30% of the total courses there the overall possibilities for financial success for those still left would improve greatly. However, I don't know if those that would still be operating would be those that possess the better designs / routing / shot values, etc, etc.

The Myrtle Beach concept is based on the maximization of one word -- MORE. Give'm more golf -- give'm more food and give'm enough babes to watch each night and you have a recipe for success. Nothing wrong with that business model if that's what floats your boat. I want to play quality designs and the Myrtle Beach area has very, very few layouts of that type.

P.S. One other thing -- I failed to mention the Dunes Golf & Beach Club and Oyster Bay (Brunswick County, NC) in my previous post. I've always enjoyed playing them. Ditto Caledonia.

A.G.

Send your last post to the Chamber of Commerce for Myrtle Beach they may bring you aboard as a consultant! I used to go to the Grand Strand plenty of times as a student when I was at South Carolina. Do you think I simply went there on a one-time visit and make remarks in such a flippant manner. If you do -- then you don't know me that well.

I don't doubt the qualities of Caledonia but it's very easy to highlight a few courses and say -- "see, there's solid golf here too!"

You need to play the top tier Jersey public courses before making your statement. There are many good ones that have opened in the last 10 years.

You missed my point (as others did with Florida). There are SOME courses worth playing in the Myrtle Beach / Grand Strand area -- however, it's the bulk which are lite weight -- even dogfood type stuff.

Myrtle Beach was conceptualized on the belief that if you give someone MORE they will be happy. I'll say it again -- many people appreciate buffet style golf. It's worked for many years and I tip my hat off to them. However, there has been too many golf course openings and with golf downsizing itself it's time for a quite a few of them to go under in order for the survivors to prosper. In some ways this situation may spur on future golf designs to be above and beyond the general "fast food" stuff that has been the benchmark for the area.

P.S. A.G. -- when you say "let's stack the top 25" I'd be happy to compare my "neck of the woods" with anything from the Grand Strand. I don't doubt the newest courses are better than what came before them -- but just remember what came before them before proclaiming that Myrtle Beach (Grand Strand) is an architectural oasis.

Michael:

I used to watch "Hee-Haw" and the "Duke Boys" too years ago -- I just don't wrap myself around such educated fanfare as some do.

All kidding aside -- I took your bait about snobs because GCA is really about identifying architectural qualities that exist. Myrtle Beach / Grand Strand is overdosed with buffet style golf. Nothing wrong with that if it floats your boat as it seems that's the case.

Michael -- I've played plenty of rounds on places where grass grew by accident rather than by design. I still maintain "membership" at my local muni and since you don't know me I don't think you are in position to say if the "shoe" fits.

Michael -- I went to USC and even served as sports editor for "The Gamecock". I am well versed in Carolina athletics and even had the pleasure in attending a number of Clemson-USC football games. Kudos to the Tigers for whupping Florida State but alas they have met their match when they visit Columbia this weekend.

Dan,
If you like vacations from which you need a couple of days recuperation time try the "Maverick" golf trail. You can start at RNK/Stonehouse in Va., then down to NC for Tot Hill/TR, then end up in SC for Caledonia/TB, or start in SC and work your way up to VA.
 

Matt,
I don't mean to shill for Myrtle Beach.  Actually, we stay on Sunset Island, the first beach into NC.  It doesn't have a restaurant, grocery store, or golf course on the entire island.  Its quiet, beautiful and the same people stay in the same houses the same week every year.

As to NJ, maybe within a 50 mile radius of your house there ARE 25 very good to great daily-fee courses, that people without some sort of professional access can play for a reasonable greens fee.  If so, you are a lucky man indeed.  I have not found that to be the case very many places.  Myrtle Beach (defined as Southport to Pawley's Is.) does.

DC - You mean Sunset Beach don't you

Has anyone here ever played The Reserve GC in Litchfield?

Redanman
From the south end (Pawley's Island) you could be at Kiawah in an hour.  From the north end, (Calabash) it would be more like 2 or 2.5.

I do mean Sunset Beach.  I just always think of it as an island rather than a beach because of the funky one-lane bridge and our house on the inlet side.  Plus, I don't go to the beach much; I go to golf courses a LOT.

Mike Vegis - I included the Pebble Beach commment in your honor... thought everybody would get that one!  

Matt - I didn't suggest the shoe fits... you're the one who tried it on and felt the need to defend yourself. It's just that I've heard it all before... "play the tips or you're a weenie; a course can only be judged by playing 'real' golf; I've played more courses than you which makes me smarter, better looking, and more virile; I've done this, I've done that; I'm the greatest; yada, yada, yada!" I'm reminded of the famous qoute: "He that boasts of his own knowledge proclaims his ignorance."

I've really enjoyed your serious reviews of other courses and areas, but your commments about MB reveal the limited and sophomoric nature of your visits. There is a lot more to the Grand Strand than "fast food" golf and strip clubs. Your dismissal of the place as nothing more than that speaks volumes. I agree... when you're a college student on a limited budget with nothing but hormones pumping through your veins, or a guy on a once-a-year weekend pass from home, MB can keep you entertained all day and night. But, when you look for more meaning in life than some co-ed rubbing her butt on your crotch, or how much beer you can drink, you'll find the Strand has a lot more to offer.

You and I are closer than you might realize on Myrtle Beach. I, too, feel there a lot of average courses. There are also a lot of average players who visit. The variety of courses matches the variety of golfers in the marketplace... a few good ones, a few bad ones, and a whole lot in the middle. For the most part they sell "bang for the buck," in golf, in food, in just about everything. But, that's not a bad thing. Like I said before, it is what it is.

Now, back to our serious topic, Mr. Sports Editor: "Met their match?" Want to back that up?

Michael W:

I take great pride in doing my homework BEFORE spouting one's mouth. I also make it a point as an active golf writer to play the wide assortment of courses that exist in the USA because situations do evolve. I've monitored and visited the greater Myrtle Beach area for over 25 years to make the comments I have. I'm not throwing darts from the cheap seats in deep left field.

Michael -- I "diss" Myrtle Beach because I know the place -- now that's a novel idea -- someone may know as much as you do! I've been there countless times -- do you think I just sample the divine chosen courses and only went there once? Guess again.

I don't doubt Myrtle Beach serves a purpose -- so does Disneyland. The bigger question, the one you really don't fully grasp, is the area is DOMINATED with buffet style golf. There are few places that are worthy of any dedicated visit by those who are architectural buffs. I don't doubt that Pete from Pittsburgh may find the place great because after football season ends and he's stuck with the cold weather, the wife and kids he will be itching for some down town with friends when the weather shows just a bit of improvement. Myrtle Beach / Grand Strand was created with him in mind.

When you have an area of 110+ courses (many of which have come on line on in the last 10-15 years) and you see the end product that's been produced in most instances you see the place for what it is. That's not a slap in the face of those who enjoy but plenty of people have different views on what constitutes quality golf. Nothing more -- nothing less.

Matt - Ditto my last post.

no hijack, but there are plenty of his courses down there...some good, some not so good.  One of which I always enjoyed, is on a great piece of land, but has been closed now for 3 years is Ocean Harbour.  It's really a shame.   The othe MB area tragedy, and I believe I mentioned it before, is the number of courses that say they have bent greens.  Well, great, but are they really considered bent when they're shaggy and burned out by July 1??

ugh, I forgot about that dismal joint....it shoulda been called S**T Hole instead.