Has the fire burned Rustic Canyon or Lost Canyons?

« **Reply #25 on:** October 30, 2003, 11:07:27 AM »

Adam,
The policy you speak of will likely be in place, how well it's enforced is the question. But this is one example where the GPS systems are great. Big Bbrother can watch people from the clubhouse and tell where they are driving, which apparently has been somewhat of a deterent. Early on, people were driving carts in places I couldn't believe.

Lou,
I'm not sure how the wildlife fared, I'm not optimistic, but I'm hopeful the rabbits, wood rats and king snakes went underground (the rattlers...they're on their own!). I'm anxious to find out myself because it would be nice if the course provided a sanctuary, but it was so intense that the chaos may have been too much. The many unique birds who call Rustic home obviously just pick up and move a few canyons down until things come back, and I suspect (hope) they'll be back as they've always added some charm to the place.

David,
Actually, we had very little trouble with environmentalists in building Rustic Canyon and they have embraced the concept behind it after seeing the finished course and the retention of plant material, which kept most of the wildlife around. They really are only concerned with keeping large parcels of sensitive land in tact so the wildlife and waters can move without interference. From what I understand the community has a much greater understanding of what a tremendous fire break it provided and I doubt that anyone who is pro-environment is going to be upset with Rustic Canyon or future plans to restore only native plants and grasses to the property.

Oddly, the environmentalists are also being blamed for not being in favor of "controlled burns" here in So Cal, when in fact they are very much in favor for reasons that deal with nature and giving native plants the chance to have a natural rebirth. It's homeowners, developers and the AQMD who fight controlled burns, and ultimately, they know it and hopefully will learn from this (knowing firefighters often only tried to protect homes with brush clearance will make for a nice wake-up call I suspect).
Geoff

« **Reply #26 on:** October 30, 2003, 11:21:26 AM »

Quote from: A_Clay_Man on October 29, 2003, 08:40:53 PM

If any one does violate the rules and they don't immediately show remorse management has the authority to suspend privledges comensurate with the "bad attitude".

I've played RC about 40 times and I can count on one hand the golfers who have obeyed the ESA signs/stakes. It's hard to pry a golfer from their Pro V1 if it's not underwater.

Lou, you said: the game is not viewed positively by significant numbers of the population.

I work in an industry that is very liberal/Democratic/tree hugging and would say those who view golf as a blight, etc. on our enviroment number less than 5 percent and that's being generous. What exactly do you consider significant? Maybe it is 5 percent.

You are right about RC being refuge for animals since there was not anywhere else to go.

When RC re-opens be on the lookout for lots of displaced snakes. I'll be carrying my previously useless 2 iron with me from now on; one firm chop across it's skull...

« **Reply #27 on:** October 30, 2003, 11:27:32 AM »

Andy,

Make sure you don't whack the king snake. At least where I grew up in West Texas the king snake ate the rattlesnake. of course in California the king snake may be a part of the left, and therefore they try to understand the rattler, to sympathise with their notorious past and hug them and help them be a part of one big loving community of snakes whom are all equals. sorry to make light of a serious situation. God bless you in California and i hope you heal and have a speedy recovery.

« **Reply #28 on:** October 30, 2003, 11:44:23 AM »

Geoff- Yes, enforcement will be difficult but maybe a lesson from "beau gest" is in order. In place of an actual marshal patroling or stationed, some facsimile that looks like a stationed marshal. Or run a video line and watch from the comfort of your home/office.

Andy- I'm not familiar with the ESA's at Rustic but if they are passive (unenforcable environazi jokes) there is a difference between a real need to keep people off a certain area for temporary recovery.

Why isnt golfing at a public course more of a contract? I golf at your facility, I pay you the money and agree to whatever else the course asks of me. If the course doesnt make it a point to ask each and every customer what's expected of them, the customer is free to do whatever they want (and they do) but if the customer doesn't like the terms they can go down the street and pay 3 times as much.

« **Reply #29 on:** November 05, 2003, 11:57:05 PM »

Hey you Eastern guys, east your heart out! Rustic Canyon opened today after 11 days of closure. Very few golfers there, 3 1/2 hour round, 72 degrees, and blue sky. Course is in great shape. It is like playing one of those courses in Hawaii. Green grass, and then very black burned land (lava like) surrounding the course. Most everything burned on the edge of the course and much on the interior. Still the birds are returning, saw some hawks high above the course. Don't know for sure, this came from cart boy, but he said Super Jeff Hicks turned on the sprinklers when the fire came and firemen told him it help slow the fire and enabled them to make sure no homes in the area burned.
In burned areas adjacent to #14 and #16 I must have seen 400 balls, of course they now look like marshmellows.
Any way everything looks fine except for one char broiled bridge.

« **Reply #30 on:** November 06, 2003, 01:49:29 AM »

Rustic should send someone over to 14 and 16 and collect those marshmallows so it takes the temptation away from golfers to go down and pick them up themselves.

« **Reply #31 on:** November 06, 2003, 08:28:21 AM »

Geoff, I hope you have gotten pictures of this and can write a story about how the golf course helped save homes. I think it could be a big PR victory for golf courses in general and Rustic Canyon in particular. Perhaps the USGA would even like to put in the Golf Journal... oops, I forgot.

« **Reply #32 on:** November 06, 2003, 11:00:06 AM »

Great idea John. This fire event should be subject material for plenty of articles in "Golfdom:, where Geoff write every month, or "GCM" mag, and even "Links".

I"m curious what the biologists and zoologists say happens to the grond dwelling life, gophers, snakes and such when this sort of widespread event sweeps across their habitat. Are the snakes really active and on the move after the fire?

« **Reply #33 on:** November 06, 2003, 11:38:14 AM »

Quote from: JohnV on November 06, 2003, 08:28:21 AM

Geoff, I hope you have gotten pictures of this and can write a story about how the golf course helped save homes. I think it could be a big PR victory for golf courses in general and Rustic Canyon in particular.

Don't forget to note that a less strategic course, more demanding on the driver, could have proved considerably less efficient as a firebreak!

« **Reply #34 on:** November 06, 2003, 11:56:02 AM »

Quote from: Dan Kelly on November 06, 2003, 11:38:14 AM

Don't forget to note that a less strategic course, more demanding on the driver, could have proved considerably less efficient as a firebreak!

Certainly a tree lined course would not have been as good.

« **Reply #35 on:** November 06, 2003, 01:23:05 PM »

Does this mean there will be no more avocado raids to obtain the fixins for a homemade guacamole sauce?

« **Reply #36 on:** November 06, 2003, 01:24:23 PM »

Lou -- I was thinking the very same thing as I read this thread. If the USGA is truly dedicated to furthering the game of golf, they won't miss this opportunity to point out how much good came of having Rustic Canyon serving as a firebreak. Open space, green space, wildlife habitat, and now firebreak -- there are numerous reasons why, to paraphrase Paul Harvey's Wal-Mart commercials, "If there's a golf course in your neighborhood, you couldn't have a better friend."

« **Reply #37 on:** November 06, 2003, 01:47:27 PM »

Golfweek's latest issue has a story on the fires and a picture of Barona Creek. The article quotes Mark Wipf from Rustic Canyon about how the course helped save homes. Lost Canyon lost about 12 bridges. Barona had a couple of fairways get scorched and the fencing around the permiter burned.

The fires also got pretty close some of the equipment manufacturers in San Diego.

« **Reply #38 on:** November 06, 2003, 06:31:38 PM »

lost canyons phones just came back on today. as was mentioned in the previious post, the sky course lost many bridges and will take a while to reopen. they hope to reopen the shadow early next week.

« **Reply #39 on:** November 09, 2003, 11:08:46 PM »

I played RC this afternoon - shot 76 if you give me a par on 17,18 in the dark.
The course was in good shape but quite different from course I'm used to in the summer:
1) The rough was 2 inches in places and even.
2) The fairways were long and damp - In general, I couldn't reach the par 5's in 2 shots playing from the tips.
3) IMO - The greens were about the same - Firm & decent smoothness.
4) The bridge between 9 & 10 is charcoal on the sides.
5) We heard coyotes out beyond 14 yelping, so there is still wildlife.
6) I did see the marshmellows on 11 & 14.
7) The hole locations were the best set I've ever played today - Not sure why I've never seen this set, but several risky peninsulas I never noticed.

The only thing left is to get Rees onsite to put some back tees and reconstruct some of the weaker green complexes.

(ok - just kidding).

Tom

« **Reply #40 on:** November 10, 2003, 12:39:27 AM »

Tom, And we also need to get Ted Robinson in there to construct a beautiful water-presentation on the hillside above 15, in place of those ugly looking bunkers.

« **Reply #41 on:** November 10, 2003, 09:01:30 AM »

Tommy

Don't think of them as waterfalls- Instead they are fire breaks.

« **Reply #42 on:** November 10, 2003, 03:44:37 PM »

I played at Rustic yesterday morning. They have finished putting up wire fences to stop people from going into almost all of the red staked areas. I think this is something that has to be done otherwise the idiots will be driving their carts in there no matter how many times they are asked not to. Like Lynn said there are balls lying everywhere but almost all of them are charred or melted. It looks very weird.

The one thing that worries me is the stability of the hill above the 7th tee. Already there is evidence of small land slides that have taken place in that area and although there are small fences that have been put up on the hillside I think a big rain might bring down a lot of the hill. It rained most of the morning when I was playing yesterday (6-9am) but it was a sprinkle.

The good thing is that this is the only area that would be affected if the hills on the sides of the course started to give way. The right side of 16 also could be affected but I don't think the hill is steep enough.

« **Reply #43 on:** November 10, 2003, 03:54:10 PM »

David - I noticed the same thing on #7.
I agree that could be dicey.

I also noticed the slope to the right on #13 could be problem for the road, but I noticed that some grass(ie. brush) was already starting to grow. If the rain comes slowly over the next month and the grass/brush starts to come back, RC might escape unscathed.

How good was that hole location on #11 yesterday?
I think the brush clearance by the fire improved the sight line on that hole and made that shot much more impressive.
I went for that pin, and long story short had to chip in finally for bogey.

BTW - I'll admit to walking into the brush to find my ball.
Guilty as charged, but at least I'm a walker.

« **Reply #44 on:** November 10, 2003, 03:59:31 PM »

Thanks for the reports, David and Thomas. Are you guys in the 11/23 group? Would love to meet you.... same goes for all who are gonna be there.

Interesting re #11 also, Thomas. David M. and I have had lengthy discussions about that hole, and it remains a mystery to me - a good mystery, as I like holes that you can't figure out for sure - why anyone would hug the left side on the tee shot, as seemingly any pin except a way back right is better accessible from the middle to right side of the fairway. David of course has tried to explain this to me... I look forward to another look at this in a couple weeks. But anyway, if I accept that there are better and worse angles in, one of the problems was that since you couldn't see the pin, you didn't know what side to try for on the tee shot... Interesting result of the fire that now you can see the pin from the tee, eh?

TH

« **Reply #45 on:** November 10, 2003, 04:17:40 PM »

Tom, The left side of the hole is the best side for me for the left pin and the right. If I'm rightoff of the tee, I tend to bring the long left side bunker into play all of the way, and you would be amazed how great of a shot it is from there, if you can get it not too far left.

« **Reply #46 on:** November 10, 2003, 04:19:16 PM »

I forgot to add, you can aim for the left middle of the green by playing a draw in from that left fairway, using the green contour to your advantage to kick it back in there, depending where the flag is on the left side of the green.

« **Reply #47 on:** November 10, 2003, 04:32:43 PM »

Tommy:

That's pretty much how Dave described it to me. What I still don't get is this: my one playing, the pin was back left (which I didn't know, couldn't see from the tee, didn't know the course well enough to check for this some other way). Now normally tempting a hazard does tend to give some reward, so I figured I'd try to hit a draw off the tee and do so - tough shot for me, my normal curve goes the other way. But I pulled it off, walked out there quite proud of myself, found the ball about 160 in, about one pace from the rough, on the very left of the fairway... and I was then faced with a damn tough shot to that back left pin, bringing ALL of the bunkers into play, as you say... it sure seems I would have been WAY better off being at least 20 yards to the right.

So why is this such a great shot in? That's what I'm still not getting... If my ball is over to the right, I don't have to worry about kicking a draw off the green center ridge and don't have to worry about carrying the left greenside bunker - it seems to me I can play whatever shot I want in, and it can bounce up, no problem.

So just why is it better to hug the left? I still don't get it.

I get it if the pin is middle to right side. I don't get it if the pin is left.

And no worries if this is frustrating... Dave tried to explain it to me and I couldn't understand it from him, either!

Perhaps it will sink in seeing it again on 11/23. I look forward to it!

TH

« **Reply #48 on:** November 10, 2003, 05:48:06 PM »

I think if your right, you bring the left hazard more into play. The tendency is that most who are on the right end up in short in the bunker. If there was one hole at Rustic Canyon that had a bunker that has some sort of strange magnetic influence, it would be a tie between the 11th front left and the 13th right in front of the green.

Hopefully you know what I mean!

« **Reply #49 on:** November 10, 2003, 07:04:16 PM »

I still kind of think that where the pin is in relation to the ridge that runs through the middle of the 11th green decides for me which side of the fairway I want to come in from. If the pin is left of the ridge I should come in from the right and vice versa.

I have recently been rethinking this since if I play my tee shot down the left side of the fairway I will end up with a shorter approach and having a shorter iron in my hand is more important than coming in from a particular side.

However, the pin was about as much left and back as it can be yesterday. Because of its extreme left location this pin screams for me to come in from the right side. Which of course I didn't do as I am a nitwit and forgot to look at the pin on the tee box.

News:

Geoff_Shackelford

Andy_Lipschultz

Kelly_Blake_Moran

A_Clay_Man

Lynn_Shackelford

David Kelly

JohnV

RJ_Daley

Dan Kelly

JohnV

RJ_Daley

Rick Shefchik

JohnV

astavrides

Thomas_Brown

Tommy_Naccarato

GeoffreyC

David Kelly

Thomas_Brown

THuckaby2

Tommy_Naccarato

Tommy_Naccarato

THuckaby2

Tommy_Naccarato

David Kelly