Phil,

I don't want to sound disrespectful and I am NOT questioning your integrity or that of the author, but the article sounds an awful lot like "The Curious Story of Sidd Finch."  There's certainly room in golf literature for satire; the article sounds an awful lot like someone's attempt to poke some fun at the effort by seemingly every archie out there to create an authentic "links."

  

Dear R J,

First of, to quote an oft-used phrase, my Dad is Mr. Young, please call me Phil.

I see that you read the first paragraph from my book. If you go to paragraph two you will see the following:

   "There are many legends about where golf was first played in America, and this is but one. That this be true is only proper considering what the future would hold for this same ground. The August and September 1935 issues of the Farmingdale Post of Farmingdale, New York, would report it this way, "...They chose an apt place for their game, for 250 years later what probably are the greatest courses in America were laid out on the same spot, and the Bethpage State Park came into being."

As you can see I only stated my WISH that this be true, not that it was, citing it as one of "...many legends about where golf was first played in America..."

By the way, you can find these issues archived at Hofstra Ubiversity at the Long Island Studies Institute in Hempstead, New York. I spent many hours there researching the true backgrounds of the community, village and park that all have come to bear the name of Bethpage.

It was here that I found the newspaper accounts of ALL of the exhibition matches that Sam Snead played on the Black, not one of which he walked off.

I was intrigued by this topic and decided to do a little quick research since the Golden Isles are one of my favorite places to visit...

A) The real Dean Creek, as best as I can tell (I certainly didn't have exhaustive resources to draw upon) flows from North to South on Sapelo Island, a protected barrier island in the middle of Ga's coast.  There may be other creeks of the same name in the vicinity but I found no record of any.

B) There is no golf course on or near the Dean Creek on Sapelo Island, it is protected land near the University of Ga's marine research facility.

C)  The first post about the course mentions that it is located on land previously owned by the federal gov't and is contaminated with chemicals and/or spen ammunition.  This leads one to believe that the course might be near either Kings Bay Naval Base (home to quite a few nuclear submarines) or Fort Stewart (a very well established Army base).

D)  A quick web search yielded a few references to the course on the web.  All three matches were located on the Liberty County message board (Liberty county is the coastal Ga. county that includes Fort Stewart).  The first message was posted July 2, 2001 and read,

"I'm trying to locate Dean creek Golf Club which I believe might be in Liberty county near Sunbury or Fort Morris. If someone could confirm this and give me directions to the golf club I would be most appreciative."

That message was followed by a reply asking whether the original poster of the inquiry had ever found the course.  Additionally the person who posted the reply also posted a new question on the board as to the location of the course.  It read,

"Could anyone in Libery County help me locate Dean Creek Gof Club? It's off the beaten path in the backwoods and borders the water, either a river, inlet, or on the Atlantic shore itself. Any help you len wold be much appreciated ....... Many Thanks."

I have started glancing over the terrraserver aerials for the Sunbury/Fort Morris area but they are dated 1993 so the degree in which the course existed at the time of the photo might be questionable.

What does this tell me?  I really don't know...it appears that there is limited public knowledge of a dean creek golf club on the georgia coast, but it also appears that nobody is disclosing its location, or any details regarding it.

On a side note, this area of the Georgia coast also happened to be one of the favorite hideouts of the famed pirate blackbeard.  It should be interesting to see if the legend and aura that dean creek golf club has developed will prove to be more factual than the legend left behind by the coast's most famous rogue.

John,

I am disappointed that you feel that I am less than genuine in my postings. I am especially concerned that you would state,
"If I found out that Phil wrote this under an assumed name I will be even more upset than I am already."

I had decided to let this die out a natural death when you put up the "Dean Creek" thrad & asking for all messages to be posted there, but due to your questioning my integrity in what motivated me to post what I did I feel that it deserves an answer.

I did NOT write the article. I have supplied you with Name, publisher & phone number of the person who did. Call him & you'll find out it isn't me!

Secondly, I only posted because I was NAIVE ENOUGH to believe that a thread titled "The Best Course You've Never Heard Of" might actually be for comments about courses that someone might feel would fit that category & for NO OTHER REASON WHATSOEVER!

If you wanted to discuss the Eau Claire Golf Club, why not just title the thread that way? I apologize if I mistakenly took away from your pleasure of discussing what is obviously an important course to you as I that was the absolute furthest thing from my mind. I do not get my thrills by posting comments on boards such as this in a means to give meaning to my ego. If so I would not have made only 3 posts before today. Please accept my apology for what you perceive that I have done wrong. Just understand their are no hidden motives or agendas.

Newcastle near Pittsburgh? Now I have some work to do...

Phil -

I've said many times before that the toughest thing to do on this board is read a post & accurately gauge the author's tone. If we were all sitting around at the 19th discussing this, I know I would be questioning your story, but not in any sort of angry manner. I suspect even John the 34 year old curmudgeon (as a side note, John, I did not realize I was your elder - maybe you should refer to me as Mr. Pazin ) would not be as angry or bitter as he might seem. That's why I litter my posts with the darn smileys, stupid as they may seem. It's hard enough for people to understand my wry humor in person - online, it's downright impossible.

John Conley,

I think Boca Rio qualifies, but you'll let me know what you think in October.

Tom Paul:

I played a few weeks ago and it was quite firm.  Nobody on this board could have had any qualms with course conditions.  The speed of the greens was fast and they have some good contour to them, like all of the old courses in the Twin Cities area two hours to the West.  Pro Jim Julsrud hit some nice drives down the center that were able to roll a bit.  I was hitting a rather high cut that day and wasn't getting a runner.  I took the photos and apologize for not taking more or better shots.

Pat:

There is no doubt you could say the same thing about Boca Rio.  I may have trumped up the title of the thread a bit, but the reason was to profile an under-recognized course with a unique history.  The first time I heard your course considered a great track was when I asked Ran about a few on his "Next 50" that I hadn't heard of.  

JWC: I've lived in Florida for about 10 years and NEVER heard anyone here talking about it.
Ran:  I don't know, but I've heard it is pretty good.

Then I heard his "source" was PAT MUCCI, obviously biased member of the place!!  I wasn't sold, but was indeed curious.  I said I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see for myself.  Then Ran profiled it on GCA, which is good enough for me, and my thoughts changed.  I'm now sure it is real good and now know why it has been able to avoid more attention.

I'll admit it.  I was skeptical.  I usually don't take one members opinion as too important and am glad everything you've said on the site has been confirmed!  I will let you know my thoughts soon!

Mike:

As you did in your thread, I always look at things in context of their era.  I say that for much of the 60s and 70s the field of golf course design was simply getting a course built.  Take rather prominent courses like Disney's Magnolia or Bunker Hills and Braemar in Minneapolis and you'll find rather bland designs compared to what gets built today.  Courses by Dick Wilson and Joe Lee and Robert Trent Jones were rather generic, and they were considered among the era's innovative ones.

Opening a course like the city of Edina did in about 1963 was a big deal, if for no other reason than golf courses hadn't been opening near Minneapolis since about 1930 or so.

I wondered after playing the Island course at Innisbrook if that wasn't one of the top 25 courses built in its era.

I didn't take it that way at all.  I just like to think of courses in terms of the era when they were built.

The analogy I use is Casablanca or Star Wars.  Casablanca is a great movie, but even better if you realize the climate around WWII.  Star Wars, to borrow a line from Butthead, well... "these Special Effects aren't very special."  But they were at the time!  It is a great film more for what it did to advance Sci Fi than for the actual story line with Storm Troopers, Hans Solo, Leiah, and Seethreepio.

To play a golf course built in the 60s and expect some high-touch waterfall and GPS isn't fair, yet a lot of people prefer that.  A guy once told me, "My brother and I didn't understand the excitement about Pinehurst #2.  We like #6, #7, and #8."

Sir, you've just told me you prefer newer courses.

Mine was Mike Strantz at Tobacco Road and Bulls Bay.

John Conley,

Well............ I'm waiting  

Okay, John. Now I gotta play this course (Eau Claire, not Dean Creek). I'll try to get there before the summer is out.

Makes me wonder if Vardon did any of the other old western Wis. courses...

Rick:

I doubt anyone not nipping from a bottle designed it, but go play Spring Valley if you haven't.  It was nine when my dad and I first visited it in the late 70s or early 80s.  It is now a very fun and quirky 18.

Just wondering, why didn't you heed my advice to play Eau Claire??  Get the car and hit that and Wild Ridge on the same day and you'll have spent your time wisely.

Rich Goodale:

Because very few have heard of the course, I set out two years ago to share with the participants on this board how wonderful it is.  Even though I have supplied pictures, you won't know for yourself until you play it.