2007 Golf Digest's New Top 100

« **Reply #25 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:00:32 PM »

Adam - would that be all that big of a story? It's #12 now. Not to hard to believe it jumps over Crystal Downs and Seminole, if not a few other possibilities currently in the Top 10.

« **Reply #26 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:05:37 PM »

Quote from: John Kavanaugh on October 23, 2006, 01:28:36 PM

I'm sure I would love Engineers...How is the neighborhood...Upscale, downscale or downright scarry.

John:

You're always welcome as my guest at ECC, the neighborhood is very nice, that is until you get there

Alas, I cannot invite TomMW for want of a time machine so would you settle for Tom Paul, and perhaps Pat Mucci as a fourth (who will be bringing his saws-all for a little stair removal work on the 16th.)

JKB

« **Reply #27 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:07:20 PM »

Quote from: cary lichtenstein on October 23, 2006, 03:33:02 PM

Quote from: Jordan Wall on October 23, 2006, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on October 23, 2006, 12:15:42 PM
Now that the 2006 season draws to the close, all the ballots are in at Golf Digest, any predictions as to what courses will crack Golf Digest's top 100 in 2007?

I'll start with a few:

The Quarry at Giants Ridge
Tobacco Road
Ballyneal
Bayonne

I'm sure Tobacco Road will definitely not be in any GD Top-100.

I refuse to say anything positive or negative about this course, which I have never played, but if I remember correctly, the last GD rankings had in #23 in North Carolina.

Jordan:

I never comment on a course I haven't played. You might want to consider doing the same

Cary

Cary - He didn't comment...in fact, he specifically said that he refuses to say anything positive or negative about courses he hasn't played.

« **Reply #28 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:10:10 PM »

Tom--

It seems like any course that moves into the Top 10 is a big story. I think we're missing the major point and that is Sand Hills would be by far (something like 63 years) the youngest course in the top 10 if it makes it. That's a pretty big story.

My guess is that there will be a return of several former top 100 courses to the list. The two that Jim Franklin mentioned earlier are logical candidates.

« **Reply #29 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:11:56 PM »

Adam - OK, I guess you're right. I wasn't thinking of this in a "top 10" context... to me it's just an overdue jump of a few more places, something that's just going to continue every two years until it settles at #4 or so. And then I'll rail against the fuddy-duds who won't get it to #1 where it belongs.

So perhaps you can understand why I personally wouldn't call it much of a story... the story to me would be if it FAILS in its march.

« **Reply #30 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:22:36 PM »

Ryan:

If Jordan didn't comment, how come he said "I'm sure TR will not be in GD-Top 100?"

Cary

« **Reply #31 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:33:11 PM »

Wasn't Shadow Creek #8 a while ago

? I believe it was the youngest top 10 hehehehe. Sand Hills certainly deserves to be in the top 10 IMHO and I could certainly argue with TH that it should be higher.

Mike - I believe we need more GD guys on this board so they can understand why quirk is good not bad. Kingsley was #22, I think, but I certainly hope it moves up more. I do know a few GD guys that played it and REALLY liked it so who knows, it may jump into the Top 100.

« **Reply #32 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:43:13 PM »

I am baffled at the low ranking of Kingsley. The only thing I can think of is that not many panelists have played it. When that happens one bad ballot can knock it down. It is a hard course to find. I gave it very high marks.

« **Reply #33 on:** October 23, 2006, 04:54:48 PM »

Tommy -

When did you play it? Hopefully your ratings will be on the upcoming rankings as will mine and the other guys I know that liked it.

Jim

« **Reply #34 on:** October 23, 2006, 05:52:01 PM »

I have played it twice. Once when it opened and once two years ago. I would join if I could get there more often. I loved everything about it, even number nine which in ten shots I could not hit from any tee.

« **Reply #35 on:** October 23, 2006, 06:28:23 PM »

I'm fairly new to the GD panel (since the last list) and played 36 at Kingsley this summer. I too was shocked at how low it was, but I believe the explanation was that there were panelists that loved it but others that really disliked it. Count me in the "loved it" group, and I hope that it does move up.

Also in the same boat would be Wolf Run. Its very high on the GW modern list and I think deservedly so. Hopefully it cracks the GD top 100 too.

« **Reply #36 on:** October 23, 2006, 06:31:45 PM »

When the last list came out, GD was raked over the coals in here for the low ranking received by Kingsley Club. I speculated then that given so few raters likely saw it (it is rather remote and has a short season - I know, other courses do too, but that fact remains), all it would take is a few bad marks to cancel out the good ones. As Andy said, a few did dislike it and that's all it took to mean bye bye to any high rankings.

I've never been there, but from the pictures and the opinions of many in here who I trust, I too am hoping it gets a higher ranking. It is sounding like more raters did see it this time, so it's reasonable to expect this.

But we shall see....

« **Reply #37 on:** October 23, 2006, 06:53:21 PM »

I received Golf Digests special supplement of America's 50 Greatest Golf Retreat in the mail today. I don't know the proper order for the courses/retreats but it was a nice mix of the old and new. Top five were:

1. ANGC
2. PV
3. The Alotian
4. Sand Hills
5. NGLA

I guess if I can get away with abbreviation it's classic.

« **Reply #38 on:** October 23, 2006, 07:07:08 PM »

Even though Bayonne is very young I would dare say that Digest would do itself a big favor and include it among the top 100 courses in the USA. I would also recommend anyone to read Brad Klein's comments on the course.

Ditto the Digest amnesia tied to the following:

*Black Mesa
*The Kingsley Club (utterly laughble that it rates out as the 25th best course in MI)
*Greywalls / Marquette GC has plenty of beef to justify an inclusion!

I'd be happy to point out a few others worthy of consideration and just as many that are there now that need to take a hike.

« **Reply #39 on:** October 23, 2006, 07:13:36 PM »

Matt,

I played Black Mesa for the first time about 10 days ago and played Paa-Ko Ridge last year. Both of those are fabulous courses. I've not played that many other courses in New Mexico (Twin Warriors and UNM-South), but those two are pretty handily the best sub-$100 public courses I've seen. If they're not 1-2 in NM then I evidently need to see what's better!

« **Reply #40 on:** October 23, 2006, 07:15:41 PM »

Quote from: Bill Gayne on October 23, 2006, 06:53:21 PM

Top five were:

1. ANGC
2. PV
3. The Alotian
4. Sand Hills
5. NGLA

Either I'm showing my ignorance, or is this one of those SAT questions where you have to guess which one doesn't fit?

« **Reply #41 on:** October 23, 2006, 07:18:32 PM »

Quote from: Matt_Ward on October 23, 2006, 07:07:08 PM

Even though Bayonne is very young I would dare say that Digest would do itself a big favor and include it among the top 100 courses in the USA. I would also recommend anyone to read Brad Klein's comments on the course.

Ditto the Digest amnesia tied to the following:

*Black Mesa
*The Kingsley Club (utterly laughble that it rates out as the 25th best course in MI)
*Greywalls / Marquette GC has plenty of beef to justify an inclusion!

I'd be happy to point out a few others worthy of consideration and just as many that are there now that need to take a hike.

Matt:

I would agree with the 3 you have mentioned. All worthly of inclusion

Cary

« **Reply #42 on:** October 23, 2006, 07:28:49 PM »

Quote from: cary lichtenstein on October 23, 2006, 03:33:02 PM

Quote from: Jordan Wall on October 23, 2006, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on October 23, 2006, 12:15:42 PM
Now that the 2006 season draws to the close, all the ballots are in at Golf Digest, any predictions as to what courses will crack Golf Digest's top 100 in 2007?

I'll start with a few:

The Quarry at Giants Ridge
Tobacco Road
Ballyneal
Bayonne

I'm sure Tobacco Road will definitely not be in any GD Top-100.

I refuse to say anything positive or negative about this course, which I have never played, but if I remember correctly, the last GD rankings had in #23 in North Carolina.

Jordan:

I never comment on a course I haven't played. You might want to consider doing the same

Cary

Cary,

I was simply pointing out I did not feel GD would put it in a Top-100 list.

I was not trying to say don't talk about courses you have nevr played (you don't), I just didn't want people hounding me for saying TR won't be in a Top-100 list as I had never played it

« **Reply #43 on:** October 23, 2006, 07:48:12 PM »

Quote from: Matt_Ward on October 23, 2006, 12:49:53 PM

Bill:

You need to play Bayonne again -- without the idiotic caddie you had. The place is extremely well done and if Shadow Creek -- to name just one -- gets listed in such a field of courses then Bayonne has to be there IMHO.

More than happy to debate the total merits of the course and any hole there. Eric Bergstol did a fantastic job and the flow of the total course is first rate stuff. Frankly, it amuses me when I see listings of top courses fawn over a few old time classics that are simply there because of their close proximity to other more regarded layouts.

Let the debate begin ...

Matt,

I'm jonesing to see his critical review and intellectual rigor in criticizing this "from scratch" genius. But I wouldn't/won't hold my breath for it.....so much hot air, so little time, for reality. Any over/under on his posted critique?

« **Reply #44 on:** October 23, 2006, 08:24:07 PM »

Quote from: Jordan Wall on October 23, 2006, 07:28:49 PM

Quote from: cary lichtenstein on October 23, 2006, 03:33:02 PM
Quote from: Jordan Wall on October 23, 2006, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on October 23, 2006, 12:15:42 PM
Now that the 2006 season draws to the close, all the ballots are in at Golf Digest, any predictions as to what courses will crack Golf Digest's top 100 in 2007?

I'll start with a few:

The Quarry at Giants Ridge
Tobacco Road
Ballyneal
Bayonne

I'm sure Tobacco Road will definitely not be in any GD Top-100.

I refuse to say anything positive or negative about this course, which I have never played, but if I remember correctly, the last GD rankings had in #23 in North Carolina.

Jordan:

I never comment on a course I haven't played. You might want to consider doing the same

Cary

Cary,

I was simply pointing out I did not feel GD would put it in a Top-100 list.

I was not trying to say don't talk about courses you have nevr played (you don't), I just didn't want people hounding me for saying TR won't be in a Top-100 list as I had never played it

Jordan,

Once again, why would do you feel GD would not put it in a top 100 list?

« **Reply #45 on:** October 23, 2006, 08:26:38 PM »

Quote from: Bill Gayne on October 23, 2006, 06:53:21 PM

I received Golf Digests special supplement of America's 50 Greatest Golf Retreat in the mail today. I don't know the proper order for the courses/retreats but it was a nice mix of the old and new. Top five were:

1. ANGC
2. PV
3. The Alotian
4. Sand Hills
5. NGLA

I guess if I can get away with abbreviation it's classic.

I noticed Kinloch is #7 and the Kingsley Club is #37 on this list. So the Kingsley Club is starting to get some recognition from GD.

« **Reply #46 on:** October 23, 2006, 08:38:14 PM »

Quote from: Mike Scaletta on October 23, 2006, 08:24:07 PM

Quote from: Jordan Wall on October 23, 2006, 07:28:49 PM
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on October 23, 2006, 03:33:02 PM
Quote from: Jordan Wall on October 23, 2006, 12:53:57 PM
Quote from: cary lichtenstein on October 23, 2006, 12:15:42 PM
Now that the 2006 season draws to the close, all the ballots are in at Golf Digest, any predictions as to what courses will crack Golf Digest's top 100 in 2007?

I'll start with a few:

The Quarry at Giants Ridge
Tobacco Road
Ballyneal
Bayonne

I'm sure Tobacco Road will definitely not be in any GD Top-100.

I refuse to say anything positive or negative about this course, which I have never played, but if I remember correctly, the last GD rankings had in #23 in North Carolina.

Jordan:

I never comment on a course I haven't played. You might want to consider doing the same

Cary

Cary,

I was simply pointing out I did not feel GD would put it in a Top-100 list.

I was not trying to say don't talk about courses you have nevr played (you don't), I just didn't want people hounding me for saying TR won't be in a Top-100 list as I had never played it

Jordan,

Once again, why would do you feel GD would not put it in a top 100 list?

Are there 23 courses in North Carolina that are good enough to be on a Top-100, according to GD?

I would tend to think not, that's all I am saying..

« **Reply #47 on:** October 23, 2006, 08:49:03 PM »

Quote from: cary lichtenstein on October 23, 2006, 03:33:02 PM

Jordan:

I never comment on a course I haven't played. You might want to consider doing the same

Cary

It is pretty obvious Jordan didn't comment on the golf course. In fact, he said he'd never seen it.

He did, however, correctly point out where a magazine rated it. This has everything to do with the magazine's ranking of the course and nothing to do with the course itself. I'd hate for Jordan (or anyone else) to not be allowed to comment on what others think of golf courses.

Cypress Point and Pine Valley are considered great golf courses. I've not played either. (Are you serious that I shouldn't make that statement?)

« **Reply #48 on:** October 23, 2006, 08:53:06 PM »

What is an Alotian?

« **Reply #49 on:** October 23, 2006, 08:57:05 PM »

Quote from: mayday_malone on October 23, 2006, 01:25:05 PM

What was the percentage of courses represented by "100" at the time GD started their rankings ? Apply that percentage to existing courses and create a "Top----". This would eliminate the silly discussion whether Plainfield is better than Engineer's or not.

It would still lead to the marginal argument around the end of the new list but this would be more like arguing about the last team in the NCAA playoffs-- fun but not relevant.

Another possibility would be to use the ranking points of the last member of the original 100 as the end point of their " Best Courses" list.

Mayday: I concur. There are so many worthy courses that have opened since 1990. To include them they have to bump deserving older courses. So the magazine had "Tradition" to prop up the older to make sure the newer courses were worthy - erring on the side of caution if you will.

My proposal, which you may remember, would be very similar to yours. I call it the "Dick Vitale" list. Have 15 in the Top 10 and so on until you have 150 courses in the Top 100. You're proposal is essentially the same.

Think about it. The Top 10 would be the same with the inclusion of Pacific Dunes and Sand Hills, plus a couple others that vascillate back and forth to make 15. (You may remember one list didn't have Augusta about 15 years ago.)

I like it.

News:

Tom Huckaby

Jason Blasberg

JR Potts

Adam_Messix

Tom Huckaby

cary lichtenstein

Jim Franklin

Tommy Williamsen

Jim Franklin

Tommy Williamsen

Andy Troeger

Tom Huckaby

Bill Gayne

Matt_Ward

Andy Troeger

Mike_Cirba

cary lichtenstein

Jordan Wall

Steve Lapper

mikes1160

John Kirk

Jordan Wall

John_Conley

John_Conley

John_Conley