Trees in the middle of the fairways

« **Reply #25 on:** September 02, 2006, 10:24:41 PM »

While not in the fairway I remember a huge tree limb that hung over the back tees at Marsh Harbor. It wasn't half broken or anything . . .

it was about 15 feet off the ground directly in front of the tee.

I remember having to punch cut a 1 iron underneath it.

It was by far the worst tree I've ever seen anywhere.

It was actually like one of the anxiety dreams where you're trying to tee off but you can't get the ball to stay on the tee or you try to swing but can't take the club back . . . this tree limb was directly in the line of play . . . I think it still gives me nightmares.

« **Reply #26 on:** September 02, 2006, 11:05:21 PM »

How come no one has mentioned the 10th hole at Spyglass - I know, all of you in the tree house love spylgass, but that tee shot and fairway shot just don't make sense, and it would take an awful lot to convince me that the tree in the middle of the fairway belongs in the middle of play. It truly detracted from my round - it is stupid, and does not belong in the field of play. Can someone tell me why a tree would EVER be in the middle of a fairway - I have looked closely at the home of golf (TOC) and I am having difficulty finding a tree!

IMHO it is for courses that lack ground nuances that can make a hole interesting - "well, we don't hae an imagination, so lets plant a tree!"

« **Reply #27 on:** September 02, 2006, 11:24:32 PM »

At least you have many more options with a tree, than you do with a body of water, that is invisible from your tee shot.
I would agree that more than two holes with trees would be unimaginative. For most players a tree in the middle of the fairway causes little trouble as most players are in the rough.
I am more disappoint when a tree is blocking your shot to the green, with little options to play, as when the tree is there, there always seems to be a bunker below.

« **Reply #28 on:** September 03, 2006, 12:43:48 AM »

lDalzell-
The tee on the tenth at Spyglass made more sense when the area above, and long, of the right fairway bunker was shaved and able to be used as a kickplate.

As it is now, all it resembles is the Eisenhower tree at ANGC.

« **Reply #29 on:** September 03, 2006, 12:54:42 AM »

How does anyone feel about the 18th at Pebble?. I haven't played there for a number of years, but now aren't there 2 trees right in the middle. The 18th is such a great finishing hole, and I guess the trees just make it a little tougher and not so automatic to reach the green in 2 for the longer hitters.

« **Reply #30 on:** September 03, 2006, 01:06:18 AM »

Wayne, There has always been those two trees. There use to even be a short little pine directly on the coast short and across from the two in the fairway. As for the long hitters, they are not in play. It's approx. 250 yards to those trees, from the tips. They may have moved them out, but i doubt it. They are rarely in play, and even if one is behind one, the opportunity to recover is still there. Our local tree hater, Chipoat, hate sthe one by the green. Directly over the right front bunker. Chpioat, completely ignores the fact that there is ample room on the left, but when someone is as fanatical as he is about his "stupid" tree, it's hard reasoning with them.

« **Reply #31 on:** September 03, 2006, 10:32:06 AM »

Quote from: Tom MacWood on September 02, 2006, 10:44:56 AM

I think there is hole or two at Stanford that had a tree in the middle of the fairway.

There's one on a longish par 4 that doglegs to the right. The last time I played there was with some jerk who had tagged along with Tiger Woods when he was a student at Stanford who insisted on telling me when I hit a good drive just how much further Tiger hit it past me. On this particular hole I made the mistake of asking him which side of the tree was best... he told me that Tiger just aimed straight over it. Of course, this was back when he had some idea where his tee shots were going..

P.S. Surprised no-one has mentioned the 17th at Cypress Point yet. This might be the best "fairway tree" hole in the US.

« **Reply #32 on:** September 03, 2006, 11:47:26 AM »

Tony- I played K Club in July- they were charging $500 a round to play there. It will look beautiful on T.V. and has 6-8 terrific holes, but it is otherwise very contrived and so much more American parkland than Irish. Anyway, the hole with the tree in the middle- I thought that one was ok- I just aimed directly for it figuring I wouldn't hit it. I hit a great drive right at it and ended up in that very long rough just to the left and was able to scoot an iron up on the green. But I can see how someone would hate that hole.

« **Reply #33 on:** September 03, 2006, 11:58:05 AM »

A couple of interesting holes at Hilton Head which have had them for some time, and they lend themselves nicely. The 16th at Harbor Town, and the 15th or 16th at Sea Pines. Palmer design the latter.

« **Reply #34 on:** September 03, 2006, 05:52:15 PM »

Wayne, K Club was not $500, you liar. It was $425 / 350 Euros. Let's be honest here.

« **Reply #35 on:** September 03, 2006, 06:16:15 PM »

Here is the offending K Club tree which is on the ninth hole. I too hit what I thought was a perfect drive only to have it find the rough surrounding this tree. I then hit a flyer to a back left pin and went over the green where it is built up 4-5 feet and very steep, leading to a pretty ugly number.

« **Reply #36 on:** September 03, 2006, 07:37:39 PM »

At my home course we have a tree that appears to be in the middle of the fairway on the last hole. I threatened to cut it down if Matt Ward hit his ball behind it on his visit. Of course I was just jiving. Actually we have several trees in the fairways and really the only one that greatly affects shots is the tree in the 17th fairway, short left of the landing area:
Photo taken from second to forward tee on a hole that has 5 tees.

« **Reply #37 on:** September 03, 2006, 11:44:25 PM »

Quote from: Paul Payne on September 02, 2006, 09:09:21 AM

Jordan,

FYI, they just finished playing part of the US amateur here at Chaska, just down the road from Hazeltime. Yep..... Art Hills, tree in fairway #3.

I do have a favorite tree however. #4 at Keller, a great old course in St Paul which has hosted the PGA and was a tour stop for the St Paul open. It is amazing the great golfers in the past who have played this course.

Anyway, #4 is a par three about 160 yards long. There is a HUGE oak tree dead center between you and the green. You cannot go around it. When you first see this it seems like an impossible joke, but if you just ignore the tree and hit the shot, your ball will clear the tree with plenty of room to spare. For those who really are afraid of heights, you can hit a strong knockdown and run it up on the green but it cannot be a sloppy shot. It really is a very fun hole.

Paul,

I don't share your love for the huge oak in front of #4 at Keller. Dan Kelly and I have played the hole twice this summer, and in our not-so-humble collective opinion, the hole really doesn't work -- especially from the blue tees. I hit the ball fairly high to begin with, but from 155 yards, I've got to fan a 7-iron wide open to barely clear the tree.

You say that you can play a knockdown under the tree, but I can only see that shot working if the pin is in the far right side of the green. As you know, there's a fairly wide bunker between the trunk of the tree and the green, and the slope up to the green is rough.

If the tree has to stay -- and I suppose it does, because there are those who think it's a great hole, for reasons that still escape me -- they should follow Dan Kelly's suggestion and get rid of (or severely shrink) the bunker and cut the rough down to fairway height to truly allow for running a shot onto the green.

Now, THAT would be fun.

Oh, and I think the tree in the fairway on #3 at Chaska Town Course is stupid, too.

« **Reply #38 on:** September 04, 2006, 02:04:58 AM »

Brad- I went on a package deal so I don't know what we paid for K club- but I'm just repeating what a couple of Americans told me that July day-- they said they paid $500 American without a caddy- whatever any of us paid- it was way too much!

Played Forest Highlands today- should be a great venue for the Mid-Am. Thoroughly enjoyed both courses- the Canyon course having quite the "wow"factor. But the Meadow course is also quite good- had a problem again with the last hole, a solid uphill long par 5- with a huge tree smack in the middle of the fairway- just didn't see the point. Weiskopf said the fairway is 60 yds wide so you should be right or left of it. But for all but the longest hitters it's plenty of hole anyway. Move it to the far right to guard a bail to the right,or put it left to guard the fairway there- but get it out of the middle!

« **Reply #39 on:** September 04, 2006, 09:02:00 AM »

Sorry Rick,

Though I think the Chaska tree is annoying I like the set up at Keller. I know this tree causes a lot of debate in the clubhouse afer a round. Possibly the difference is that not only is my typical shot fairly tall, but I am usually hitting a strong 8 iron clearing the treetop by a good 15-20 feet.

You are correct on the low shot. I have made that shot for fun, but the tee was on the back right. you can actually use the mounding off the right side of the green to your benefit in that case. You could use the same shot for a center pin but a left location would be difficult to get anywhere close.

I have thought about whether they should trim the tree back some so it is not quite such a looming obstacle. I think that would be justified because when the course was in its prime the tree had to have been 20 feet smaller all around. This might even allow a slim angle around the tree. I think to eliminate it would be a mistake. It may seem a little over the top (no pun intended) but without the tree the hole would be more than bland.

« **Reply #40 on:** September 04, 2006, 05:24:13 PM »

My second home course, Pawleys Plantation, has two holes with trees in the middle of the fairways (three if you count trees not in the fairway but directly obstructing the line of play). There's a big oak in the middle of the 9th fairway about 180 from the greem, and a much smaller tree in the middle of the 14th fairway about 225 from the green (par 5). Both are fine with me, because there is enough room to get around them, and they aren't blind. If you get shut out, it's your own fault for not avoiding them.

I have no problem with sentry trees. To me, they're just another hazard, similar to centerline bunkers.

« **Reply #41 on:** September 04, 2006, 08:15:28 PM »

Quote from: Wayne Freeman on September 02, 2006, 09:53:16 PM

when you have to think about trees all the time in the middle of everything, it plays with your thinking process alot

Wa yne,
I suspect that this was the architect's intent.

« **Reply #42 on:** September 04, 2006, 10:10:09 PM »

Tom Mac:

Yes, the 12th at Stanford. Just recently played it again and the hole has grown on me. There is ample room right and left to approach the green and laying back a bit off the tee will allow one to fly their approach over the smaller of the two trees - which is how I played it. Not sure if one can loft the approach over the taller of the two trees but maybe Mike Benham will chime in since this hole is one of his favorites.

« **Reply #43 on:** September 05, 2006, 12:06:50 AM »

Gene -

I think the 14th is the weakest par-3 on the course ... but the 12th is a heck of a par-4 with a, guess what, tree in the middle of the fairway

Even if you are lucky enough to put your second shot on the green, you still might need a wedge to get to the hole as the green is 42 yards long ...

Mike

« **Reply #44 on:** September 05, 2006, 01:21:49 AM »

Quote from: Jason Blasberg on September 02, 2006, 10:24:41 PM

It was actually like one of the anxiety dreams where you're trying to tee off but you can't get the ball to stay on the tee or you try to swing but can't take the club back . . . this tree limb was directly in the line of play . . . I think it still gives me nightmares.

Jason,

I thought I was the only nutcase who has that recurring dream. Like trying to take a backswing in a hall closet.

It's good to know that you and I not only share some very similar viewpoints on golf courses, but that we also have many of the same neuroses and subliminal anxieties.

It's times like this I'm happy that GCA exists, if only to validate my own sense of normalcy.

« **Reply #45 on:** September 09, 2006, 01:03:39 PM »

Completely forgot about the 6th hole at Pajaro Valley ...[/i]

« **Reply #46 on:** September 09, 2006, 05:46:29 PM »

I can't let this go by - this is one of the worst examples of bunker design supposedly tying in with the non-existant green design I've seen on this site.

Does this course have a designer? Of course if you want to avoid the bunker you can ricochet your approach off the shack.

« **Reply #47 on:** September 11, 2006, 05:51:46 PM »

My home course, Lakewood, in Dallas, used to have a big tree in the middle of the 13th fairway. Struck by lightning about 15 years ago and removed (I think) by Coore & Crenshaw in the 1996 re-do. Probably planted or routed there by Ralph Plummer back in the 1940's.

Oak Hills (former Alamo CC) in San Antonio (Tillinghast) has a several holes with trees either in the fairway or that block shots from the fairway based upon angles of approach.

« **Reply #48 on:** September 11, 2006, 10:41:12 PM »

Since this thread is still going I would like to pose a question:- Should fallen trees in the middle of the fairway (or any standout or significant trees) be replaced if they fall or die?
There was a great old tree on the 15th hole of Recreation Park in Long Beach, Calif.- a 324 yard par 4- we used to just aim at it and hope for the best since it blocked most of the fairway about 270 out. It was actually pretty cool because this muni course had so many birdie opportunities anyway, and if you could sneak your tee shot by the tree you had a real good chance for another one. About 10 years ago a big storm blew it down and they didn't replace it. Now the hole is just a real short par 4 without anything going for it.
Bel- Air had a fantastic tree on it's #1 handicap 4th hole, although not in the middle- it did block about 1/2 of the fairway on the right side. Something happened to it and when I played the course last I thought it was unfortunate that that had happened since it was such a landmark and made the hole so special.

« **Reply #49 on:** September 12, 2006, 12:19:46 PM »

Quote from: Paul Payne on September 04, 2006, 09:02:00 AM

Sorry Rick,

Though I think the Chaska tree is annoying I like the set up at Keller.

I'm a little slow to open this thread.

I think the tree on 3 at Chaska is terrific, although definitely unorthodox. The hole is a rare example of making a par four driveable for a player that can hit the ball 220 yards, as long as he takes an agressive line, risking the trees and lake to the left. A low shot that gets on the ground left of the tree funnels to the green, due to slopes that keep the ball from running into the water. A high shot can fly the tree and hit the green. If you hit it right of the tree you are left with a difficult pitch shot over bunkers with water behind.

I understand why others would dislike the tree. It took me several rounds decide differently. At first blush the tree seems stupid because it essentially eliminates a purely conservative layup. But I think it is fair game to force the player to hit it 200 yards on a 280 yard par four.

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