Guys:
For all of you out there who presume to think that Ward believes Dismal River is better than Ballyneal BEFORE -- REPEAT -- BEFORE -- I have said anything on the subject is indeed barking up the wrong tree.
I will get to Ballyneal but the focus of THIS THREAD is Dismal River. Got it.
Allow me to answer each of the other replies that have been made -- pardon me for the delay -- I was traveling and spent the greater part of yesterday at the grand opening of Sebonack on the Island.
George:
The distances and angles are a bit different for a range of holes. And that is what makes Dismal River so special to play. Let me point out that when people play tees they can't handle you then get all the bitching and moaning from people who should have accepted their own limitations and adjusted accordingly.
The tip tees George, as you well know, are not for people looking for a quick and easy joy ride when they don't have the driving skills to handle it. No different than having people stay nearer to the bunny slopes and then decide it's better to handle the double diamond slopes.
Dismal River puts appropriate amount of pressure on the player at the tee sites. You have to hit the ball a sufficient distance AND shape the shot accordingly.
Dismal River is no doubt a demanding course -- but so is Oakmont, Winged Foot West, Bethpage Black and The Ocean Course at Kiawah. All would make my top 100 and so would Dismal River if / when the 13th hole situation is sorted out. The key thing to remember is that I see the course as being quite fair -- albeit taxing. However, when people with pop-gun games decide to play from the big-game hunter tees the invariable result is that they will be eaten alive.
Geoff:
In a word -- Dismal River has plenty of uneven lies. I can go through each hole and itemize where they are. The thing to keep in mind is that Jack and his creative team have not added severe slope where it doesn't fit.
Give you a clear example -- on the dog-leg right downhill par-5 of 600+ yards. I nailed a tee shot and had roughly 240 yards to the target. I was left with a downhill falling away stance with a four-iron. I could hit the ball cleanly but because of the slope and the other design elements between me and the hole I HAD to think especially hard about what the stance / lie would do. In sum -- the hole didn't simply surrender because of the tee shot. You have a number of other situations on the course where this happens. The dog-leg left uphill par-5 for the approach 12th hole is another example.
The Nicklaus team is well aware of how to influence the play of a hole by allowing the natural characteristics of the hole come front and center. Dismal River has those elements in a number of places.
Tom H:
There's plenty of fun at Dismal River. I had it in spades. I simply opined that people who bitch and moan about a course being TOO TOUGH likely have played from the wrong tees. As a result their "SELF INTEREST" becomes the general interest they write about.
There are a number of holes at DR where the player is given a range of quality options -- you have to pick the right one for YOUR GAME and then execute accordingly. That's both fun and challenging at the same time.
Steve L:
Yes, I have played Sand Hills -- did it soon after it opened and played 45 holes in one day from the back tees. As anyone who has played with me likely knows I generally try to play a course from the max.
The wind that day was in the 10-20 mph range. In order to give you an idea -- I hit driver / 5-iron into the 18th because the wind picked up a good deal on the two times I played that hole.
Steve, I could not include Sand Hills on this trip because of a vey hectic schedule -- landed in Denver on 8/15 and played in five states (Colorado, Nebraska, Wyoming, Montana and Idado) total of 2,500 miles in just over seven days on a total of ten courses and left on a red-eye on 8/23 and then went to the grand opening event at Sebonack yesterday. As you can see just a bit on the run.
Please don't misunderstand me on my comments. I love Sand Hills but there are way too many people here on this site that think lower of Dismal River simply because Jacks' hand is involved.
John K:
Hold the phone partner. I have not uttered one word on Ballyneal and you then go off half-crocked on Ward being enamored with sheer difficulty and blah, blah, blah.
This is sheer bull and frankly gall on your part.
John -- how bout you wait for ME to INSERT MY OWN WORDS into MY MOUTH before telling me what I am thinking about another course that is not now being the main focus of this thread.
I actually played both courses and can present what I see on both. You have played one course and when I have the time I'll be happy to provide as much detail on that one as I have done here. Just give me the opportunity to do so before opining the usual tired malarkey that Ward likes this or doesn't like this.
One last thing -- Jack's comments were meant for those fools. idiots, clowns (get my drift) who play the wrong tees and then proceed to get their butts beaten to a pulp. If people thoroughly -- repeat the word -- UNDERSTAND THEIR OWN GAME they can enjoy Dismal River.