What happened to H.Chandler Egan?

« **Reply #25 on:** August 02, 2006, 04:52:00 PM »

Pip - Welcome!

The design of my former club - Riverside GC in Portland (next door to Columbia-Edgewater) is attributed to H. Chandler Egan.

Riverside is a very fine golf course and I'm proud to have called it my golf home for 6 years.

We used to try to spot features at Riverside that were also seen at Pebble Beach. Didn't see a lot

« **Reply #26 on:** August 02, 2006, 04:53:33 PM »

Tom, What Golf Illustrated covered, when & why also does not dictate what were considered either "major" events or tournaments with a national importance. But let's suppose what they have to say on this matter is decisive. Look what was written in November of 1925:

Summary of 1925 Amateur Events - Complete List of Winners of All Major Amateur Golf Events

The list of “Major Events – Men” are as follows:
National Amateur Championship
Western Amateur Championship
Southern Amateur Championship
Intercollegiate Championship
Canadian Amateur Championship
Trans-Mississippi Championship
Public Links Championship
Pacific-Northwest Amateur Championship
Middle Atlantic Championship
Golf Mashie Tournament
Interscholastic Championship
International Senior Championship
U.S. Senior Championship

That's pretty good company to be included in, especially when there is an additional list of nearly 100 "Important events" that was at the bottom of the same page.

Whether you think so or not, the tournament was thought well of nationally. Still, the real question becomes why do you not admit that he did play in tournament golf and had NOT "dropped of the face of the earth" as you stated in the post you made that started this.

Again, he also played in the Western Open during this time period as I previously referenced. Or is that now not a tournament of national or major importance?

He did play significant tournament golf during these years. You just refuse to accept it.

« **Reply #27 on:** August 02, 2006, 05:22:28 PM »

Here is a couple references to Egan from American golfer

Mr. H. Chandler Egan, former national
and western amateur champion,
is at home for the holidays after an
interesting experience near Medford,
Oregon, where he will make his permanent
home after February 1, 1912,
as the manager of a big apple ranch.
The Exmoor life member, while in the
apple country, planned and personally
superintended the construction of a fir
bungalow of artistic design, demonstrating
to a number of Harvard men
who were his companions in the Medford
Golf and Country Club, that he
possessed a good quality of business
acumen.
A Seattle contractor told the Chicago
golfer that he would not take the
contract for building the bungalow for
less than $3,500. Mr. Egan undertook
the contract work himself and
built the house for $2,600.
"The golf links out there are crude
yet," said Mr. Egan, "because there
has not been the amount of work done
on them that should have been done.
But in time we shall have a very interesting
and pleasing course."

American Golfer Jan. 1912

Mr. H. Chandler Egan, former national
and western amateur champion,
is at home for the holidays after an
interesting experience near Medford,
Oregon, where he will make his permanent
home after February 1, 1912,
as the manager of a big apple ranch.
The Exmoor life member, while in the
apple country, planned and personally
superintended the construction of a fir
bungalow of artistic design, demonstrating
to a number of Harvard men
who were his companions in the Medford
Golf and Country Club, that he
possessed a good quality of business
acumen.
A Seattle contractor told the Chicago
golfer that he would not take the
contract for building the bungalow for
less than $3,500. Mr. Egan undertook
the contract work himself and
built the house for $2,600.
"The golf links out there are crude
yet," said Mr. Egan, "because there
has not been the amount of work done
on them that should have been done.
But in time we shall have a very interesting
and pleasing course."

American Golfer March 1912

Add to this the fact that in 1911 Egan and his wife had a baby, his wife was ill requiring a hospital stay(~1915-6), and his responsibilities at the orchard would require most of his time. Not much time to practice and get back East to play in the bigger tournaments.

He also won the silver medal in the 1904 Olympics.

Here is a link to some of Julian Grahams photos of Egan

http://www.julianpgraham.com/galleryChandlerEgan.htm

Tully

« **Reply #28 on:** August 02, 2006, 06:04:14 PM »

Pip,

Or is it Slag?

As you seem to be quite knowledgeable about the Portland area, what other courses did Junor do in the area?

« **Reply #29 on:** August 02, 2006, 07:46:30 PM »

I only know of Astoria and Portland.

Slag? Isn't that some sort of drop-off from molten metal?

« **Reply #30 on:** August 02, 2006, 08:47:53 PM »

Garland
No. I don't think Egan was mentally ill, but I was wondering if Phil might diagnose him.

Sean
This is from the 'Encyclopedia of Golf' (Ryde, Steel, American editor Herbert Warren Wind):

"He built up an impressive record in the first decade of the century, then abruptly disappeared from competition moving to Oregon in 1911, where for a few years his home was 300 miles from a golf course. During those years he gave his occupation as fruit grower. He began competion in Pacific-Northwest tournaments in 1914 but did not enter for the US Amateur again unitl 1929, when the event was held in the West for the first time, at Pebble Beach. In his first appearance in the event since he had been runner-up in 1909 he reached the semi-finals-some indication of what he might have accomplished had he competed regularly in the Amateur."

I seem to recall reading that Egan was trying to start commune of sorts in Oregon.

Phil
If you want us to believe that the Pacific Northwest Am was a major national event in the 10s and 20s and that Egan did not fall off the face of the earth (in a golfing sense) thats fine with me.

« **Reply #31 on:** August 02, 2006, 08:55:18 PM »

He designed a couple of courses in Spokane, WA as well...Indian Canyon I believe, and.....

« **Reply #32 on:** August 02, 2006, 09:27:15 PM »

Quote from: Philip Young on August 02, 2006, 11:35:17 AM

He played in the Western Open in 1927 & may have done so in others (need to look it up). The New York Times even has a short article about his losing a match back in 1915 and did a nice article titled "The Apple Farmer from Oregon" in th early 30's where his history was discussed (Need to find that as well.)

Phil
The 1927 Western Am was played at Seattle so it would make sense for Egan to enter.

I have that nice article 'The Apple Man from Oregon'. It reports his upset of Johnny Goodman at Kenwood....Goodman was the US Open champion and the favorite. I don't know if you read or not...but regarding your unique point of view that Egan did not go anywhere (from a golfing sense):

"In ordinary times H.Chandler Egan lays out golf courses and raises apples in his Medford orchards out in Oregon. He dropped out of championship play for some years. He was once a Chicago district player in his younger and championship days. When he drifted to the Coast he was rather out of bounds for big tournament competition. The championship did not go west of the Rockies until 1929, when the tournament was held at Pebble Beach. That seemed close enough for H. Chandler Egan, so he took his bag of ancient weapons and came back to the wars again. Since that time he has been doing right well, considering his age and the weather and everything."

It was raining in Cincinnati when he defeated Goodman +2. From 1929 he entered all US Ams until his death in '36.

« **Reply #33 on:** August 03, 2006, 01:41:37 AM »

Many of the answers to questions posed on this thread can be found in Jeff Shelley's Golf COurses of the Pac. NW guide.

His research states.......

John Junor designed Broadmoor, Glendoveer & Portland Golf Club.

H. Chandler Egan only designed the back 9 at Riverside. The front was built by Jim "Scotty" Henderson.

Medford's H. Chandler Egan was hired to design a 9 hole course. Rabbi Wise, Tualatin's first president, Cecil Bauer, and George "Scotty" Junor, were the driving forces behind the original course, which was the first to plant Oregon bentgrass on the greens. Egan designed a second nine, and the Tualatin Country Club was on its way.

Waverly was designed by Jack Moffett, H. Chandler Egan and A. Vernon Macan. (also the designer of Columbia Edgewater, site of Safeway LGPA tourney)

Charles W. Halderman and John Junor designed Astoria G & CC.

Egan did design the original Eastmoreland, Eugene Country Club and Rogue Valley Country Club layouts too.

« **Reply #34 on:** August 03, 2006, 08:53:42 AM »

Tom MacW -

At one time I tried to write something about Egan. The information above is interesting. (I did not know he continued to compete in regional am events.)

Several years ago I spoke with his daughter. At the time she was a widow living in Ohio. She told me that Egan lived alone at his orchard after the divorce and that she didn't see much of him. She talked about how he was a very quiet and kind man. She fondly recalled spending some of her summers with him at his farm and travelling with him.

He was from a wealth family in Chicago. Played on the Harvard golf team. Won the collegiate championship a couple of times. A consummate gentleman and, seemingly, loved by everyone. He partnered briefly with MacK in the late '20's in the design business.

Egan was something of a hero/father figure for Bobby Jones. Not so much because of his golfing exploits, but because of the kind of man he was. Egan may have steered Jones to Harvard and the two winters Jones spent in Cambridge taking courses as a special student. It was Jones that got Egan to ATL to design N. Fulton so that - I am speculating here - Egan could afford the trip to play in the first Masters in the middle of the Great Depression.

A sign of Jones's affection for Egan was that when Egan died of pneumonia in 1935 (?), Jones traveled to Oregon for his funeral. A three or four day trip each way by train in those days. Jones also wrote a brief, moving eulogy.

Bob

« **Reply #35 on:** August 03, 2006, 01:26:22 PM »

Bob
Egan re-married in 1916 (Alice Barrett Scudder also of Chicago). She had been married before as well. They were together until his death.

I don't get the impression money was ever a problem for Egan, my impression is he had a lot of family money not to mention his golf architecture business. Not only did he have an orchard in Oregon he also had a home on the Monterey Peninsula. He played out of his home club in Oregon (Rogue Valley) at the 1929 US Am, out of the Monterey Peninsula CC the following year and Cyress Point C. in 1931-1935. He was traveling from coast to coast to play in the US Am in the early 30s.

I recently discovered an article on Egan written by historian Robert Macdonald in an old Golf Journal. It appears he interviewed a number family members including his daughter (Mrs. Morris Everett).

The article said that Egan initially gave the insurance business a try but found it intolerably dull. His father was avid gardener, and had instilled the interest in horticulture (I believe there is rose garden in Highland Park that is named after his father) and that love led him to an orchard in Oregon. The article said he convinced ten other young familes to join him there in hopes of building a utopian community. Not all the settlers stayed, but he and his second wife did. I'm not sure if his first wife (and child) ever made it out there or not. Kind of bizarre if you ask me.

Grantland Rice and Jones both attended his funeral.

I still think there is more to this story than what we know today.

« **Reply #36 on:** August 03, 2006, 01:58:20 PM »

Tom

Interesting stuff there. I would be very interested in some correspondence between Egan and Hunter, that would prove interesting I'm sure. I have collected a number of photos of him and tried to trace him as best I could. Your info adds to my interest in him, any mention of a name for the commune. If I get some time, I would love to find some more info on him.

Bob

Thanks for your info. I was making assumptions in my first post, but it seems that his staying out of the big tournaments was in some way impressed upon to Jones as your information indicates. Jones, and Hogan were and have always been my favorite golfers and Egan is making his way to my third position.

Tully

« **Reply #37 on:** August 03, 2006, 02:01:06 PM »

Tom Mac -

You may be right about the money thing. I don't know. It was, however, very important to Jones that Egan attend the first Masters and see his new course. My guess is that Egan hesitated to make the long trip. So Jones threw out as bait the design commission for N. Fulton to get him to make the schlepp to Augusta.

Agreed that what we know only scratches the surface. There was a lot more going on. Certainly Jones thought so, and he wasn't easily impressed. My guess is that Egan had thought long and hard about lots of things. His golf and his golf architecture career were probably the least of it.

Bob

P.S. It is interesting (and a bit sad) that his daughter never mentioned to me that her father had remarried.

« **Reply #38 on:** August 03, 2006, 02:12:43 PM »

Quote from: Michael Dugger on August 03, 2006, 01:41:37 AM

...
Charles W. Halderman and John Junor designed Astoria G & CC.
...

According to Astoria's website, that was Halderman and George Junor.

George Junor also did Orchard Hills across the Columbia from Portland.

« **Reply #39 on:** August 03, 2006, 04:04:42 PM »

I'm thinking of going down to Medford and researching the old newspaper archives, maybe court records if they are available. Will I be duplicating efforts already done?

« **Reply #40 on:** August 03, 2006, 11:14:15 PM »

I wonder why it's so interesting or necessary to research why a man like Chandler Egan dropped out of competitive golf for so long. People go through all kinds of things and not continuing on with competitive golf even during the greatest competitors' prime years is not that all that unusual.

After-all, perhaps one of the greatest of them all gave it all up for good at 28.

One of the things that struck me recently about some of the greatest competitors of yesteryear was how casual and relaxed they say things were in competiton compared to the way things are now.

Max Behr was probably just as good and just as successful in competitive golf as Egan was and I can't see that Behr cared to continue on in competitive golf that long either.

I have a feeling that men like Egan and Behr were pretty unusual in numerous ways---sort of renaissance men, as it were.

One of the oddest plights of a successful competitor of yesteryear was a man by the name of Eben Byers. A wealthy and privileged young man, and a 1901 Yale graduate he eventually he became addicted to Radithor, a combination of water and radium that was said to be a curative in wealthy social circles. He consumed so much of it in a somewhat limited time it eventually ate holes in his flesh and in his skull and bones. he died from that at 51.

Eben Byers may be best known not as the US Amateur champion of 1915 but as the defending US Amateur champion in 1916 who lost to a 14 year old prodigy from Atlanta who was to become the future of golf in the first round of the US Amateur at Merion. Apparently that particular match at the time was as notable for the excessive club throwing on the part of both competitors as anything else. Who was to know at that time what was to come in the future for the remakable Bobby Jones.

But again, even he was over and done with competitive golf at 28 after a rapid action meteoric career that included a couple of ticker-tape parades for him through NYC.

« **Reply #41 on:** August 03, 2006, 11:16:05 PM »

Peter
You wouldn't be duplicating anything I have done. If you had some free time to check it out I think it would be awesome. I think I may have is address in Medford somewhere...let me know if I can help you in any way.

Sean
It would be interesting to find correspondance between Egan and Hunter. I suspect there maybe some interesting letters at the USGA, he was a committee member during the 20s. His relationship with USGA no doubt helped him get the Pebble Beach job because he wasn't exactly a household name in golf architecture. I suspect he also had an excellent relationship with SB Morse.

« **Reply #42 on:** August 03, 2006, 11:33:03 PM »

TEPaul

As usual you make a very insightful comment.

What makes Egan so interesting ,at least to me, is not really his golf accomplishments but rather how different he is from the players of today. Your phrase renaissance men describing is spot on. As I have been following this post I have been struck by how different top level players are today from so many in Egan day

So why the change. Are we just more one dimensional today, or more focused at the experience of other activities?

« **Reply #43 on:** August 03, 2006, 11:48:55 PM »

JohnK:

Those are very good questions.

Perhaps one of the reasons things were so different then for some of the competitors even at the very top levels of competitive golf was not that the competition was any less competitive for them personally then it is today---eg basically Jones claimed he couldn't take the mental strain of it any longer----but because back then there really wasn't much of any financial incentive or future that way in competitive golf.

Don't forget, they say that even Jones during the height of his competitive career put his clubs away in the fall and went back to work in his real job.

We may too easily forget that back then basically top level amateurs and amateur golf was perhaps more interesting to the golfing public than professional golfers were.

That's something that might be hard for many of us today to understand fully but nevertheless with just a few exceptions it was definitely true.

Wayne and I had lunch today with the inimitable Jack Whittaker and the way some things were back then that many of us don't seem to realize now was one of the topics of conversation.

That and the way some things from the past seem to be recylcing now in golf architecture, and the reasons why.

« **Reply #44 on:** August 03, 2006, 11:50:05 PM »

To most of us it is incomprehensible that someone in the "hey day" of their competitive ability, like Egan was, would opt to "step down."

Bobby Jones did it.

Maybe H. Chandler Egan did it too???

I surmise it might be the case.

We all march to the beat of our own drum. It is difficult, however, as someone who loves this website, to imagine that another who has had a taste of the discipline (and surely Egan had a taste) would opt to set it aside and pursue other endeavors.......let alone the Apple.

« **Reply #45 on:** August 04, 2006, 12:02:46 AM »

It is my belief that Egan worked on Tacoma Country and golf. TCG has bee the site of several USGA events. Unfortunately it is has had some work added by John Steidel and it is in danger of becoming too short.

Always in excellent condition and in the teens and twenties the professional was Long Jim Barnes who had numerous battles with Hagen.

« **Reply #46 on:** August 04, 2006, 12:10:07 AM »

Ever since I was about 20 and hanging around the catechisms that are New York and it's incredible social and culture life I have been a student of physiognomy---the science and study of faces.

Chandler Egan's face in photographs, particularly the photos when he's older, are more than a little interesting to me.

« **Reply #47 on:** August 04, 2006, 01:10:04 AM »

Quote from: John Keenan on August 03, 2006, 11:33:03 PM

TEPaul

As usual you make a very insightful comment.

What makes Egan so interesting ,at least to me, is not really his golf accomplishments but rather how different he is from the players of today. Your phrase renaissance men describing is spot on. As I have been following this post I have been struck by how different top level players are today from so many in Egan day

So why the change. Are we just more one dimensional today, or more focused at the experience of other activities?

Wasn't golf more of a "gentlemen's" game then? The playgrounds of the rich? Those guys had the wherewithal to be renaissance men. Jones' family was rich. Sounds like Egan's was, too: he went to Harvard, and in 1910 bought his apple orchard for $75,000. A huge amount of money then.

Golf is now more democratic. Which has brought on two things. One, IMO the level of play is light years beyond what it used to be. And two, no one who wants to be a top golfer can afford to spend half his time writing poetry anymore. The age of specialization.

« **Reply #48 on:** August 04, 2006, 07:23:10 AM »

JimN:

Seems to me most of the big difference in golf and golfers in that early age compared to today wasn't about the money and families some of those early amateurs came from back then (after-all there sure were the Francis Quimets and Johnny McDermotts and such) but the money in and around the professional game today.

Back then there was no PGA Tour, there wasn't even a PGA. Professional golfers were generally better than most all the amateurs but there wasn't much of anything back then for professionals golfers to showcase their talents other than the national Opens (which back then weren't as important to most as the National Amateur Championship) and any exhibition matches they could arrange.

The big difference---huge difference---between golf and golfers back then compared to today is in modern times professional golf has become a huge business in so many ways. There is just so much money in and around it that didn't exist at all back then.

Back in the days of Egan, that just didn't exist at all.

Even in the 1920s and 1930s and 1940s the PGA of America was still something of a fledgling and struggling little organization, and back then it was pretty much an organization of club professionals, not the so-called "tour" professional.

Even as late as the late 1960s there was no PGA TOUR. A friend of mine who was a better ball partner of mine sort of took care of that when he sued the Philadelphia Section of the PGA of America which effectively resulted in coming together with a few other factors to create the present PGA TOUR.

And the rest is history resulting today in some juggernaut world reknowned athletes like Tiger Woods.

« **Reply #49 on:** August 04, 2006, 08:29:17 AM »

Quote from: TEPaul on August 03, 2006, 11:14:15 PM

Max Behr was probably just as good and just as successful in competitive golf as Egan was and I can't see that Behr cared to continue on in competitive golf that long either.

TE
Max was a fine golfer, but he did not have Egan's Amateur record.

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