I can tell you the hole is much easier from the member tee, 115 yards from the left angle where the slope of the green is directly oriented to the tee.  I've only played the hole once, and that was in a scramble.  Hit PW to 10' behind the hole and rolled in the putt for 2.  Walking around from the tournament tee (still only 132 yards) you could see how much more difficult the shot was from that angle, with the little pot bunker and the slope of the green from right to left putting another element of doubt in the equation.  Add in the usual wind and the hole becomes a potential nightmare during tournament pressure.

Is it really 8500 square feet?  It doesn't look that big, either from the tee or on the green.

Patrick:

I still haven't read the book. Does that mean I have to stay in my room and can't play?

Bill,
The green is huge.  We outine the dimensions in the book.  It just doesn't look that big.  I've played the hole quite a few times.  One day is was really blowing and you can't believe how hard it can be to hit.  That green can get reasonably firm.

Kyle,
I don't think that little pot bunker gets too much action.  You could stand there with a small bucket and not hit it.  However, it is one of those bunkers that if you do hit into it during a round, you'd probably be elated as it is better than going in the water.  

The bunker is small so the sand shot itself is confined.  You have to be able to get the ball up quickly to get out.  Typical of many Pete Dye bunkers.

    One thing that was not mentioned in the book is the players being sheltered from the wind by the large berm to their left. Much like ANGC's 12th they have to figure it out from the flags and trees.
    I think this is the only listed hazard which is totally penal, every other one can be avoided. And its position in the round makes it the oral for the PhD
   
    My first time at this hole our group had to watch one player in the group ahead hit at least ten in the drink. It was not helpful. I imagined the old 14th at Tualatin which was a similar length hole totally surrounded by bunkers. Figured if I hit that with regularity, I cold hit this.
    The other time I dunked the first and hit the next one in the bunker.

The wind clearly plays a role here.  And the green is not exactly flat.  If you remember that long putt Tiger made; if it didn't hit the hole and could have been wet.  There is some slope (but less than Pete originally wanted).   8500 square feet with nothing around it doesn't look that big when you are standing 130 yards away.  Doug, do your island greens have the water right up against them or is there some rough/bailout area.  What is the total size of each island?
Ryan, thanks for your comments about the book.  Glad you like it.  A hole like this needs ALOT of teeing space.  You can imagine how many golf balls are played to it every day.  I've seen foursomes not leave till every player hit the green.  The angle/orientation of the green from the different teeing areas is more a factor than the tees themselves.

Wayne is that in the area of the lone tee you see in the color photo in our book or is it even further right?  I can't imagine it being much farther over or you would have to play over that tree.  

Mark,

I'm sorry to say, I have no idea since I don't have the book.  Tell me how much I should mail you and I'll do it today.  Then I can answer your question  

Rich:

Cool - I must admit I was thinking along those lines - that is, shit how the hell hard can it be at 130 yards or whatever?  And yes, the green does LOOK pretty big.

BUT... one thing is giving me pause here... you also once called 16 Cypress "no big deal, simple driver to the right side."  

So I would like some other opinions before I settle this in my mind.  

Mark:

I just finished the chapter on the psychological role of hazards - that's what prompted my question here.

Because I can see Rich's point - the green is big, and it is only 130 yards... But I also see great pros find the water there in the TPC... and hear horror stories from regular joes dumping ball after ball into the drink.

At 16 CPC, it's understandable because it's a damn hard golf shot to begin with.  And then yes, good call, for so many it's tantamout to impossible anyway, so the pressure is less - one can do only good, not bad - if it goes in the ocean so what?

At 17 TPC-S, well it just can't be the difficulty of the shot -as you say. Damn near all golfers would EXPECT to get teh ball on that green.  Well said, and well written in the book.

Might another part of this - for one-time visitors anyway -  be the fame of the golf hole?  That is, this course is pretty famous, well-photographed, seen on TV.  But 17 has to be up there with 16 CPC in terms of photo presence, then add in the TV, web-site coverage, etc... and well... It's kinda like playing CPC - first question from the boys back home will be how did you do on X?  (X being the famous golf hole).  Thus the self-induced pressure... those the ball finds the water....

TH

The other thing about #17 is I think it affects your play on #16 too, which is the first time you see it.  You are getting ready to hit your second shot, or maybe your approach, and you see the damn thing floating out there in the water and your first thought is, oh shit.

So while you're thinking that, you are mucking up #16 too!  

Great hole for head cases!  

Mark do you identify when Rough was first defined on a golf course? I.E. not an area of wild grass but an area distinct from the fairway.

As I see it greens were the first area to get special attention (even if they were in practice very sandy areas from the teeing up).  On most courses animals were allowed to graze everywhere else but towards the end of the 19th Century horse drawn mowers appeared.  Choosing which areas to use them on was an early form of GCA.  which courses were the first to use them?

Tony Muldoon,

Would you please delete your posts referencing the Himalayas, we'll get to them a little later.

Let's discuss one hazard at a time, with the 17th at Sawgrass being the focus of this discussion.

thanks.

Tom Doak,

Would the impact on the players mind be diminished if the tee at # 17 has elevated such that the golfer would have a clear view of the green, it's perameters, and the surrounding water ?

Isn't part of the intimidation factor the unknown, the golfers inability to see everything, especially the boundaries of the features, thus increasing the uncertainty with respect to the shot he faces ?